Where are you Microsoft???

Question

I joined this forum right after I started to have issues with my Surface Book (i7/256/gPU) and since then I come to this forum every single day at least 5 or 7 times per day to see what other people are doing to fix all the reported issues. What I am starting to notice is the change in tone from all users, from a peer-to-peer support and collaboration space to a place where we are all expressing our frustrations and disappointment while we count our days to make a decision if we return or not the Surface Book. But I think that the WORST part of all, (at least for me) is that Microsoft is not stepping up to address any of these issues. 

We know you (Microsoft) read these comments and follow some of these threads closely. The only thing we ask you to do is to acknowledge us, jump in and speak up. Tell us that you are working on it, share ETAs... something. Most of us believed in the product and pre-ordered it the same day it was launched. The least thing you can do is to work with us so we can help you to fix the problems. What is the point of having a forum if you are not going to lead the conversation?

Answer 1

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I can assure you that I am a real person that has an i7 Surface Book as does my fiancé and we absolutely love ours. Neither of us have had the issues that are being described in this thread and I wholeheartedly think the Surface Book is a game changer and the best laptop I have ever owned. My only issue is with the Surface dock which doesn't support two monitors and is just flaky in general for me. That said other folks in this community forum have written me to let me know that is probably due to my monitors be 1 of 8 models not supported. While it is still frustrating and annoying I do hope that's the case because if I can remedy the issue by swapping out the monitors I'll be very-very happy with everything... even though I think it's really dumb or just dumb luck that my monitors aren't supported.

I have to believe that the issues that people are having is the result of bad hardware. I had a Surface 2 before upgrading to the Surface Book and never really had an issue so I'm thinking MS has a bad run of hardware on their hands. As long as MS is willing to continue to replace your device I would try to just hang in there and keep having them replace it though I'm sure that's easier said than done. I can tell you that my experience with the Surface Book has been a thing of beauty and I could not be more impressed with what MS is doing even with some bumps along the way. I am recommending the Surface Book to all of my family and friends and anyone that will listen because I think it is that great of a product.

Answer 2

i7/256/dgpu here - I must also agree that the pen in this case isn't even close to the same type of issues we are all having. Your pen breaking isn't an issue affecting all surface users and creating critical errors sometimes rendering their laptops useless. 

I am, however, torn between whether microsoft is trying to help or not. I walked into a microsoft store yesterday and saw the yoga 900 (which I would actually love to have instead of the surface at this point, but it is too late for me - do not ever buy from BestBuy as their 15 day return policy is ridiculous) and I started complaining about all of the issues I have been having with my surface book to a representative. He offered for me to bring in my surface book and to have them check it out. They said they'll run software checks on it and look at the damage to my fulcrum. This is a great start, but I highly doubt he will be able to fix any of my issues as they depend on microsoft updating both hardware, firmware, and drivers. My issues include:

General:

• Initially Blue Screens - No longer apparent after the November update - edit - I just had a blue screen. This still happens.
• Entire Crashes of the machine (non responsive) - No longer apparent after the November update.
• Touch screen non responsive, but keyboard and trackpad work - still happening sometimes
• Pen input is always at full pressure and writing from slightly above the screen (not touching) - rare

Trackpad:

• Trackpad not working after waking the machine (keyboard still works, touchscreen works) - happens a lot
• Cursor delay directly after typing - this is killer and is a driver/algorithm issue. Probably my biggest gripe  - fixed - see edit
• Trackpad not working while pressing keys - if you have every played games, this is killer - fixed - see edit
• Trackpad thumb detection not really working - try scrolling while your thumb is resting - only works half the time. The issue here is that most of the time it will detect it as another finger and moving your thumb actually will move the mouse. This will sometimes cause it to not register any clicks from it until lifting your thumb and resting it again and is probably also the root cause to the next issue below.
• Trackpad letting go while dragging using your index finger and holding the click with your thumb - this happens all the time and is abhorrent. I literally can't select text while clicking and holding with my thumb because it'll just drag everything around. Moving my thumb will actually cause it to move the cursor.

Battery life and sleep:

• I get a battery drain while in sleep mode
• Opening the surface book after sleep mode and closing it will not wake it almost ever
• Hard resets half the time after sleeping
• When I hit sleep, the fans keep running for a long time sometimes.

Hardware issues that make me want to return this device (even though I can't):

• I am unlucky enough (much like probably most of you) to have the samsung SSD in my device and after running tests and benchmarks, this thing is terrible in sequential write and 4k write. For having a machine that is supposed to be top of the line, the SSD in "almost all" surface books is just below standards. Some surface books (as rare as it gets) came with the toshiba SSD, which is top of the line and writes super fast. Unfortunately, we as customers have no control over which hardware we are getting. Microsoft
• this was a terrible decision. Why would you do this?
• My fulcrum has already chipped itself (as in damaged in a sense that pieces were scratched off of it). It has literally chipped pieces out of itself when closing it, which was nothing I did, right in between some of the accordion bends.
• My fulcrum is actually pretty wobbly. Even when fully extended the screen wobbles when I tap it. If it isn't fully extended, tapping the screen will easily cause the screen to dip backward until the next "accordion" section. It doesn't like to stay much in non fully extended positions and especially not in between some of the "accordion" sections (I don't know how else to describe it).

So don't get me wrong, this is not to say that this isn't a great machine. It promised to be, and in my opinion it still can be with all the above fixed.

Unfortunately, the SSD speeds will NOT improve with this hardware. The Samsung PM951 NAND is not advanced one bit. Search the issue yourself and run some benchmarks with AS SSD and CrystalDiskMark. This is not okay for a device that needs to take me 4 years or more into the future. I don't want an SSD that writes as slow as a hard drive in 2015 and especially not in 2020. Take a look at this other post on this website for more info: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfbook-surfstorage/extremely-slow-ssd-in-surface-book/4267a139-0603-4a91-9cec-97982d71d511?page=1

The trackpad can be fixed. The hardware is fantastic. Now the driver needs to be updated to actually implement the functionality well. Currently the trackpad (which is said to be as good as the macbook) is a deal breaker because it doesn't offer what it said to offer. I have used a macbook air for over 4 years and the trackpad in it is still better, but now not because of the hardware, but the driver. The thumb clicking to hold and drag stuff is necessary on a clickpad like this. Without proper thumb detection this becomes absolutely useless.

The sleeping issue can also be fixed. Once again the system needs to be updated and sleep needs to be properly implemented.

The fulcrum issue is something we will have to live with. Microsoft may update the design in later revisions to make it stiffer and especially to keep it from chipping itself, but that's just a hope. This isn't a deal breaker.

Edit: I'd like to update on the trackpad delay: Thanks to SimonOrJ (give him a thanks) I've found that microsoft now includes a setting to change the delay on trackpad usage after typing. I think this is new (or I might have totally been blind) because I looked for it before, but didn't find it. Under trackpad settings there is a dropdown menu for changing the delay length after typing. This is a great addition and lots of thank you microsoft for listening to our concerns. I must say that disabling it isn't the best solution because now we basically eliminate palmcheck, but it does fix the lag. Maybe you guys can release a more advanced palm checking algorithm that actually detects accidental taps and ignores it instead of just disabling the trackpad for a certain amount of time.

Answer 3

Even though you purchased through Best Buy I would think you could still return it through MS. I think all Surfaces and Surface Books come with a one year warranty. I would definitely exchange yours... Those aren't issues I would live with... And I agree Best Buy is terrible.

Answer 4

i7/256/dgpu here - I must also agree that the pen in this case isn't even close to the same type of issues we are all having. Your pen breaking isn't an issue affecting all surface users and creating critical errors sometimes rendering their laptops useless. 

I am, however, torn between whether microsoft is trying to help or not. I walked into a microsoft store yesterday and saw the yoga 900 (which I would actually love to have instead of the surface at this point, but it is too late for me - do not ever buy from BestBuy as their 15 day return policy is ridiculous) and I started complaining about all of the issues I have been having with my surface book to a representative. He offered for me to bring in my surface book and to have them check it out. They said they'll run software checks on it and look at the damage to my fulcrum. This is a great start, but I highly doubt he will be able to fix any of my issues as they depend on microsoft updating both hardware, firmware, and drivers. My issues include:

General:

• Initially Blue Screens - No longer apparent after the November update.
• Entire Crashes of the machine (non responsive) - No longer apparent after the November update.
• Touch screen non responsive, but keyboard and trackpad work - still happening sometimes
• Pen input is always at full pressure and writing from slightly above the screen (not touching) - rare

Trackpad:

• Trackpad not working after waking the machine (keyboard still works, touchscreen works) - happens a lot
• Cursor delay directly after typing - this is killer and is a driver/algorithm issue. Probably my biggest gripe
• Trackpad not working while pressing keys - if you have every played games, this is killer
• Trackpad thumb detection not really working - try scrolling while your thumb is resting - only works half the time. The issue here is that most of the time it will detect it as another finger and moving your thumb actually will move the mouse. This will sometimes cause it to not register any clicks from it until lifting your thumb and resting it again and is probably also the root cause to the next issue below.
• Trackpad letting go while dragging using your index finger and holding the click with your thumb - this happens all the time and is abhorrent. I literally can't select text while clicking and holding with my thumb because it'll just drag everything around. Moving my thumb will actually cause it to move the cursor.

Battery life and sleep:

• I get a battery drain while in sleep mode
• Opening the surface book after sleep mode and closing it will not wake it almost ever
• Hard resets half the time after sleeping
• When I hit sleep, the fans keep running for a long time sometimes.

Hardware issues that make me want to return this device (even though I can't):

• I am unlucky enough (much like probably most of you) to have the samsung SSD in my device and after running tests and benchmarks, this thing is terrible in sequential write and 4k write. For having a machine that is supposed to be top of the line, the SSD in "almost all" surface books is just below standards. Some surface books (as rare as it gets) came with the toshiba SSD, which is top of the line and writes super fast. Unfortunately, we as customers have no control over which hardware we are getting. Microsoft
• this was a terrible decision. Why would you do this?
• My fulcrum has already chipped itself (as in damaged in a sense that pieces were scratched off of it). It has literally chipped pieces out of itself when closing it, which was nothing I did, right in between some of the accordion bends.
• My fulcrum is actually pretty wobbly. Even when fully extended the screen wobbles when I tap it. If it isn't fully extended, tapping the screen will easily cause the screen to dip backward until the next "accordion" section. It doesn't like to stay much in non fully extended positions and especially not in between some of the "accordion" sections (I don't know how else to describe it).

So don't get me wrong, this is not to say that this isn't a great machine. It promised to be, and in my opinion it still can be with all the above fixed.

Unfortunately, the SSD speeds will NOT improve with this hardware. The Samsung PM951 NAND is not advanced one bit. Search the issue yourself and run some benchmarks with AS SSD and CrystalDiskMark. This is not okay for a device that needs to take me 4 years or more into the future. I don't want an SSD that writes as slow as a hard drive in 2015 and especially not in 2020. Take a look at this other post on this website for more info: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfbook-surfstorage/extremely-slow-ssd-in-surface-book/4267a139-0603-4a91-9cec-97982d71d511?page=1

The trackpad can be fixed. The hardware is fantastic. Now the driver needs to be updated to actually implement the functionality well. Currently the trackpad (which is said to be as good as the macbook) is a deal breaker because it doesn't offer what it said to offer. I have used a macbook air for over 4 years and the trackpad in it is still better, but now not because of the hardware, but the driver. The thumb clicking to hold and drag stuff is necessary on a clickpad like this. Without proper thumb detection this becomes absolutely useless.

The sleeping issue can also be fixed. Once again the system needs to be updated and sleep needs to be properly implemented.

The fulcrum issue is something we will have to live with. Microsoft may update the design in later revisions to make it stiffer and especially to keep it from chipping itself, but that's just a hope. This isn't a deal breaker.

Your Surface Book is still under a full one-year Microsoft warranty even though you bought it at BestBuy.  Do not take it back to a BestBuy for anything, ever.  It makes no difference where you purchased your Surface Book, it is still a Microsoft product.  Take your Surface Book to a Microsoft Store and show them your hardware problems.  The Microsoft Store will do everything in their power to help you and to correct any problems you are experiencing.

Answer 5

Thanks guys for responding so quickly!

I just docked my surface back into the keyboard and the touchscreen gave out completely. No finger input, no pen input. Only trackpad and keyboard. OHH THE IRONY.

Anyway to respond. I don't believe microsoft will refund me, which is what I'd like at this point. I would like my 2200 dollars back. Only BestBuy could do that, and since I'm past 15 days there's no way they'll refund me.

Anyway you guys are correct! I will be taking in the surface book for inspection on Monday (tomorrow) to the store where I spoke with the manager. He will run software diagnostics and will inspect my device.

Here's my issue with this solution, however. A lot of these issues are plaguing all surface books - ie the SSD issue since almost all of them ship with the slow samsung NAND. He will definitely not be able to fix this for me and replacing the device won't help unless he magically pulls out a rare toshiba drive equipped batch. The trackpad issue can't be fixed by him. I tried the delay after typing on the store display model and I experienced the same 1-2 second delay. I will try the click and drag, but I'm going to assume it is a driver/firmware issue, which he will not be able to fix for me. This is for microsoft to fix. And on top of all, some of the intermittent issues, like the touchscreen giving out when docking don't happen all the time and from experience, especially don't happen when you are trying to show someone of importance (just how the universe works). So I have a feeling that he will tell me sorry, this is what all surface books are like and for me to wait out the updates from microsoft. Or he will attempt to replace my surface book, but chances are I will receive the same issues with a new unit as they are issues globally on all surface models.

What do you guys think?