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Why do my footnotes keep randomly losing italicisation?

Anonymous
2023-01-11T16:39:45+00:00

Hello,

I am writing to further reinforce the long-term problem with Word identified by AlanFord56 on this forum on Oct. 14, 2021, which to my knowledge has not been adequately addressed. Like him, I'm writing a book using Word, and the tendency for footnotes in my draft chapters to randomly revert to de-italicized font is driving me (and my editor and copy-editor!) crazy. Surely there must be a way to fix this problem, which many academic friends have experienced? Footnotes are obviously vital; formatting them is finicky and time-consuming, and I only want to do it once. Please help!

Thank you.

[I cut and paste Alan's comment below, as he documents it so clearly:]

AlanFord56

Created on October 14, 2021

Footnotes losing italicization

I have used Microsoft Word now for over 30 years, and written five books with it. I have regularly in that period encountered a very frustrating problem with footnotes, where references to book and journal titles in italics lose their italicisation at random for no apparent reason. Sometimes it happens in the middle of my using the document, sometimes when I reopen it the next day I find the itals have gone. Just to stress - this has happened since the very first book I wrote over 30 years ago, so it is clearly a longstanding problem.

It is also one which has been raised repeatedly in this community: see for example,

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/footnotes-italicised-book-titles-keep-reverting-to/d14f6fe4-529b-4cd7-be24-7ba837561c8e

and https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/italics-lost-from-footnotes/30e7a157-4e05-4141-8e03-e672ea8977d0?auth=1

The descriptions given there precisely fit mine - I completely sympathise with them as fellow sufferers.

I am now writing on Microsoft Word for Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2109 Build 16.0.14430.20292) 64-bit, on Windows 10, and have just started my sixth book and it is happening again. Really, really tedious having to go through every footnote and restore italicization by highlighting and pressing Ctrl I.

What is interesting about the discussions is the wonderful tendency to blame everything apart from Microsoft Word - it is, apparently, the fault of the posters not the software. Well, maybe so, I'm an experienced, but not particularly techie computer user. But it seems to be such a common and standard problem, and it has been going on for so long, that it might be worthwhile seeing whether (a) it really is a software problem and (b) whether there is a fix to it.

Sigh...

Hope someone takes this up an runs with it, I'm not looking forward to writing the remaining 140,000 words of this book if it keeps on happening.

Best

Alan

Microsoft 365 and Office | Word | For education | MacOS

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  1. Charles Kenyon 166.5K Reputation points Volunteer Moderator
    2023-01-11T17:33:12+00:00

    There are two styles that deal with footnotes: Footnote Text and Footnote Reference.

    The key one is Footnote Text.

    Image

    If at any point this style had Italics as formatting things can get confusing because Italics formatting is a toggle.

    If, say, the style had Italics and someone editing decided they did not like it and selected each of the footnotes and turned off the Italics. This is called direct formatting. However, any new footnotes would then still be entered in Italics using the settings in the style. If the style were then to be changed to non-Italics the current footnotes would change/toggle so those that had been set to not be Italic, would now use the directly-applied Italic formatting. This is enough to confuse anyone who does not understand the layering of style-based formatting, direct formating, and toggle settings.

    You want to first check the Style to make sure that it does not have Italics formatting. Then, select the footnotes that are showing Italic formatting and reapply the style to the footnote. You should be able to do this using the keyboard shortcut Ctrl+Spacebar.


    Are these footnotes or citations? Citations have their own set ups.

    Image

    It is important that you learn about character styles and how they work.

    If footnotes and not citations...

    You want part of your footnotes Italicized. That has to be handled either through a character style or by direct formatting if in the footnotes. Look at the formatting of your Footnote Text style.

    Image

    The default for that is non-Italicized so you would want to apply an Italicized character style (perhaps Emphasis) or direct Italics formatting to text you want Italicized.

    As Bob Jones pointed out below, you can apply a character style using the same keyboard shortcut. You've now had three different people recommend using a character style for this purpose. You might want to at least toy with the idea. I personally have Ctrl+I assigned to the Emphasis style (Windows).

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  1. Anonymous
    2023-01-16T22:58:38+00:00

    Thank you, Doug; I will try this. It seems much clunkier and less intuitive than command+i, though.

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  2. Anonymous
    2023-01-16T21:19:33+00:00

    Thanks for following up, Charles. In my discipline (history) and many others in the humanities and some social sciences, our citations appear as footnotes at the bottom of each page. I use the "insert footnote" icon on the References menu or the keyboard short-cut (option/command/F) to insert the relevant bibliographic details into a footnote that back up the claim I'm making in the body text above.

    I do not want any app or built-in citation tool to format them for me for two reasons: my discipline's official style manual is updated annually, especially as more archives digitize their materials (necessitating different locational details be included), and I often use archival documents with unique source markers (carton, piece, photograph number) that vary by archive/repository type and which no automatic bibliographic tool (like the "insert citation" function in Word) knows how to handle. I simply want to type in the citation details for each footnote, italicize the parts of the citation that require it (titles, foreign terms) as I would with text in the body of the chapter, and then not have Word screw anything up thereafter. (A separate bibliography--which includes an entry for every source mentioned in a footnoted citation, albeit formatted slightly differently--appears at the end of the book manuscript. I've never had a problem with italicized titles reverting in a document's body text, where chapters and the bibliography are composed).

    I've read the link you provided several times about the importance of using the Footnote Text style. But I have always used direct formatting to italicize titles in my footnoted citations, leaving the rest of the info un-italicized. I don't understand why only some of my italicized titles get reverted and not others.

    Anyway, it appears an easy fix isn't readily available. I will give the styles link another read-through. In the meantime, if anyone who uses Word for academic writing in the humanities has come across this problem and knows of a solution, I'd greatly appreciate knowing it (and will pass it on to colleagues who are also pulling their hair out over the problem anytime they need to submit a draft only to find italicized titles in footnotes randomly de-italicized when they go to share a document). Thank you for your help, Charles.

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  3. Anonymous
    2023-01-16T18:36:55+00:00

    Thanks so much for your help, Charles. After carefully reading it and making sure I'm using the "footnote text" style, I'm afraid I'm still confused.

    Perhaps if I tell you my dream scenario for using Word as an academic, you can tell me if there's any way to accomplish it. I want to be able to open a new empty document and then write and revise it extensively, over the course of months and sometimes years, and then compile it with other chapters into a master document (the final book, which will include thousands of unique footnotes, some commentary but mostly carefully formatted citations, a mix of normal and italicized words). I have never bothered with styles before; I just use the "insert footnote" short-cut feature (option + command + F) multiple times per page, then proceed type in and format each reference manually (adding italics to the titles and foreign words as needed -- Word can't tell which words need to be italicized or not, I presume?). I do not use any special styles or other programs. I simply want to type in my reference, properly formatted (including italics), and then I want it to stay like that, unless I later edit it.

    Currently, with no apparent trigger, the italicized phrases in some footnotes will revert to non-italics. Sometimes this happens between saves; sometimes it happens when I send a copy to a colleague or editor. They'll remark that I forgot to italicize some titles; I will distinctly remember italicizing them (sometimes just a few hours earlier), and much frustration ensues as I attempt to re-italicize them, with no confidence that the same thing won't randomly happen again in the next draft.

    I cannot upload a sample document as my footnotes are currently properly formatted, though it's only a matter of time before I notice some some have reverted without warning. But here's the sort of thing many academics deal with when trying to write long texts with complex footnoted references in Word. This is how I input a few footnotes (using the short cut above, and manually italicizing the titles) and how they at first appear at the bottom of my page:

    1. Hastings Ismay, The Memoirs of General Lord Ismay (New York: Viking, 1960), 199, as quoted in James Holland, The Battle of Britain (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 2010), 476.
    2. Ismay, The Memoirs, 210, as quoted in Holland, The Battle, 480.

    A couple hours or days later, I'll notice a few of them have randomly de-italicized themselves, without any conscious style change or toggle from me. Only some change -- that is perhaps the most maddening part as it seems to defy a simple fix:

    1. Hastings Ismay, The Memoirs of General Lord Ismay (New York: Viking, 1960), 199, as quoted in James Holland, The Battle of Britain (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 2010), 476.
    2. Ismay, The Memoirs, 210, as quoted in Holland, The Battle, 480.

    The difference between the first set and the second many not seem like a big deal, but academics grade students on how well they follow our discipline's formatting style, and academic publishers certainly expect correct, consistent references. I just want to be able to type and format a footnoted citation, save the doc, and be confident it will stay that way. Many thanks for any advice you might have.

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  4. Charles Kenyon 166.5K Reputation points Volunteer Moderator
    2023-01-12T15:57:12+00:00

    Hi Alan,

    Just checking back. I know this is confusing.

    Do you need more help?

    If my guesses are not accurate, you are welcome to post a sample document with the problem on a cloud site and give us a share link here. Here is an article on how to do this without giving out confidential copy.

    Why a sample file is important for troubleshooting - - - - - - - and how to do it.

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