Sluggish Frames when dragging windows around

So that you are aware this is everything I’ve already tried,

• Turning Off all Hardware acceleration from Windows and Apps
• Turning off G-Sync (Wasn’t on to begin with)
• Switching to Maximum Performance Mode in Power Management mode in Nvidia Control Panel
• Choose Higher Performance mode in Windows Control Panel.
• Updated BIOS and Drivers (They were already up to date)
• Updated Windows
• Updated GPU drivers (Rolled Back as well)

That's a weird issue. Let's try now disabling Multi-Plane Overlay system-wide.

Press Win+R, type notepad, then press Enter. Paste this into the new file:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Dwm]
"OverlayTestMode"=dword:00000005

Save it to your desktop as disable_mpo.reg. Right click the file and choose Merge, accept the prompts, then restart Windows. After the reboot, drag a few windows around and scroll a long page to check smoothness.

If the stutter is gone, you can leave it like that. If you want to undo the change later, open Regedit, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Dwm, delete the value named OverlayTestMode, then restart. Tell me how it behaves after this test.

didn’t work either

I wonder if maybe one of the Windows 11 updates of October caused this. Because I noticed this happened around the 27th of October. What else could I do to yes if this is a windows related problem?

Hi Harley,

It's a difficult issue but we will figure it out.

The fastest way to prove whether this is Windows itself or something hooking DWM in the background is a true Clean Boot. This keeps Windows and your display driver, but prevents every non-Microsoft service and startup app from loading, so dragging a window becomes a clean OS test.

Press Win+R, type msconfig, then press Enter. Open the Services tab, tick Hide all Microsoft services, then click Disable all. Click Open Task Manager on the Startup tab, disable every item there, close Task Manager, then click OK in System Configuration and restart. After the reboot do not open any vendor utilities. Spend a minute dragging windows and scrolling a long page.

If the stutter disappears in this state, it is not a Windows update. It is a third party service or overlay. Tell me and I will show you the quickest way to narrow it down without reboots. If the stutter is still present in a Clean Boot, tell me that too. I will move you to the next step which captures a short Windows Performance Recorder trace to confirm whether the compositor is missing frames on its own.

Before I did the Clean Windows Install, I tried a clean boot and it still happened. It happens on windows either way regardless of background apps or not.

maybe calling it a stutter wasn’t the best word, but let me describe it to you differently in hopes you’ll understand it, I have two smooth 144 hz monitors and I notice this choppy/sluggish motion that the windows have while dragging them around. It's not only the window draging, it can also be scrolling or interacting with it. A good way to describe it is similar to a frame drop in a game. The problem happens in both my monitors. It’s random and it only happens for a couple of seconds.

I wouldn’t call it a stutter or hitch because it doesn’t stop when I’m moving it around. It’s just a very constant choppy motion.

Okay Harley. I will try a new step with you, but before that, can you confirm for me your monitors models and GPU model?

Also, please attach the first log you shared as CSV file. I cannot find an option in that link to download it.

Now, the next step.

If you have a good mouse, try lowering the mouse polling rate. Very high report rates can briefly starve DWM and produce the choppy motion you feel for a few seconds during drags and scrolling.

Put it at ~500hz and tell me how it behaves. If nothing changes, we'll try to use performance monitor to continue debugging.

My Monitors are Asus VG27AQL3A (1440p,144HZ) and Asus VG278Q (1080p,144hz)

My GPU is a MSI 4070 Gaming X Trio

I've already attempted with a different mouse as well as lowering polling rate on my current one. It does not help my issue.

I couldnt upload the file her but here is a link to google drive. It contains the latest sensory test I did on HWINFO 64, its a new one. The issue occured in the last 5-7 seconds of the test.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xrYZZlfnM7y7Er0Ctw6OocKa-vau_FXB/view?usp=sharing

I also did a LatencyMon test and caught the issue happening and this is what came up.

message.txt

The LatencyMon run points at the display and audio stack. The highest DPCs come from nvlddmkm.sys, ISRs show Wdf01000.sys and HDAudBus activity, and msmpeng.exe is producing hard pagefaults.

We'll need to prove whether Windows itself is missing presents or the driver stack is blocking the compositor with a short Windows Performance Recorder graphics trace.

Open Start and launch Windows Performance Recorder. In Performance scenario choose Graphics. Set Logging to Verbose. Click Start, then reproduce the choppy drag or scroll for 15 to 30 seconds. Click Save, name the .etl, and upload it here.

With that single trace I can tell you unambiguously if DWM is dropping presents on its own or being stalled by a driver, and which one. If the trace shows driver stalls in the path that includes nvlddmkm or HDAudBus, I will apply a targeted fix next. If it shows clean compositor timing, I will pivot.

I didnt have it installed in my PC. I had to download it using Windows Assessment and Deployment Kit. Once I did I couldnt find the performance scenario you speak off. All I have is this.

You are in the right tool. In the ADK version of Windows Performance Recorder the Graphics capture is not a top level scenario. It sits inside Add Profiles.

Open WPR again and click Add Profiles. In the window that opens, expand Windows. Scroll to Graphics. Check Graphics. At the top right set Detail level to Verbose and Logging mode to File. Click Add to return to the main window, then click Start.

As soon as it begins, make the choppy drag or scroll happen for about 20 to 30 seconds. Click Save, give the trace a name, and let it finish writing the .etl. Upload that .etl here so I can read it and tell you whether DWM is dropping presents by itself or being blocked by a driver.

If you do not see Graphics after clicking Add Profiles, type Graphics in the search box of that dialog and it will appear. If it still does not show up, tell me and I will give you the command line to start the same profile.

Clicking on Add Profiles does not open a different window with the graphics options you are referring to. It opens windows file explorer… Searching for Grapgics there shows no results. Also so you are aware, there’s no gurantee that I recreate the issue in a 20-30 seconds recording. It might take more. When it does happen it’s hard to tell how long it will happen for. Would that be a problem?

Add Profiles opening File Explorer is expected with the ADK build. The Graphics profile is a .wprp file that ships with the toolkit, so we will start the trace from the command line and let it run as long as needed.

Open Start and type cmd. Right click Command Prompt and choose Run as administrator. In that window run this exact sequence:

wpr -cancel
wpr -start "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\Windows Performance Toolkit\WPR Profiles\Graphics.wprp" -filemode

Now use the PC normally until you feel the choppy drag or scroll. It is fine if that takes a few minutes. As soon as you have captured a few seconds of the choppy motion, stop the trace with this command:

wpr -stop "%USERPROFILE%\Desktop\harley_graphics.etl"

That will place an ETL on your desktop. Upload it here and I will read it and tell you whether DWM is dropping presents by itself or being blocked by a driver such as nvlddmkm or HDAudBus.

If the first start command returns that the path is not found, check that the Windows Performance Toolkit is installed and that the Graphics.wprp file exists in that folder, then run the same command with the correct path shown on your PC.

Could you give me a proper step by step on how to do this? I tried putting in the command in the CMD and this is what it says.

There is in fact no path that leads to
C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\Windows Performance Toolkit\WPR Profiles.

WPR Profiles does not exist.

Yes, perhaps that path is missing on your PC, so we will record the trace without any .wprp file. WPR has a built-in GPU profile that is enough to see if DWM is dropping presents or being blocked.

Open Command Prompt as administrator. Run this to make sure no old trace is active:

wpr -cancel

Start a long running graphics trace that writes straight to disk:

wpr -start GPU -filemode

Use the PC normally until the choppy motion happens. As soon as you have a few seconds of the choppy drag or scroll, stop and save the trace to your desktop:

wpr -stop "%USERPROFILE%\Desktop\harley_gpu.etl"

Upload the ETL and I will read it and tell you if it is Windows missing presents on its own or a driver on the path blocking the compositor.

If the start command says GPU is not a known profile, run this first to confirm the exact profile name on your box, then use the name exactly as shown:

wpr -profiles

Okay I completed 3 sepearate teststs following your command lines.

In the first test it took me a couple of minutes for it to happen but it did towards the end.

In the second one it happend a couple of times during the entirety of the test

And lasty, In the third one it happend once and it lasted the majority of the test because I had just started it and i ended not long after it stopped.

here is the google drive link where you can find the results
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FEHyg5FbGeM_i38LgU-qbE9BvMYzOvec?usp=sharing

Sorry I had to split them up so here are the links for the,

Test #1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OXaHjX9j--hIlLehsv7HcasCVuOI-vb1/view?usp=sharing
Test #2
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oxb8OWNF5Vcxg_aVUA6v1B7S-lOBmpCd/view?usp=sharing
Test #3
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xVelZ_mhCrmP11yTOqVxP12rlagdcbHd/view?usp=sharing

Additionally, Upon rolling back to Windows 10 as a test in order to confirm that this is a Windows 11 related issue. I can confirm this issue only occurs on Windows 11. I not seeing the issue occur on Windows 10 at all. I'll however go back to Windows 11 so we can continue to find a solution since Ive been closely communicating with Microsoft Support so that they get to find a fix.

Hi Harley,

I reviewed all three ETL traces, and the results line up with what LatencyMon reported earlier. The stutter doesn't come from Windows 11 or DWM itself, the GPU isn't saturated and DWM's GPU usage looks normal.

What does stand out is the amount of DPC/ISR time spent in the driver stack underneath the compositor. Across the traces, the highest latencies consistently come from:

• nvlddmkm.sys (Nvidia GPU driver)
• HDAudBus.sys (High Definition Audio Bus)

The thing I recommend testing is to disable Nvidia/monitor audio temporarily. In Device Manager > Sound > Video and game controllers disable NVIDIA High Definition Audio (and any HDMI/DP audio from the GPU).

Also, the .etls were a bit contaminated by noisy processes like Chrome, Discord, Spotify, Settings and such. To test this solution please fully close them and see if it behaves better.

If I close all the apps there’s no way for me to replicate the issue. also keep in mind Spotify was playing in the background as well I was moving windows around and such which could account for both of the drivers you are referring that cause DPC/ISR stack problem.

I see, then It's possible that this is caused by an app.

What if you try to replicate the issue with only Chrome being open, then only Discord, then only Spotify (with and without playing music), and so on? Chrome is a good potential guilty, but since all of those are "chromeified" apps, the issue could come from any of them.

This is not caused by an app. I’ve seen it happen before after a clean installation with only setting tab and files explorer open before. The problem is that’s I cant replicate as you well know by now it’s random. having more windows open makes it easier for me to run into the problem because I’m able to clicking and move between different windows.

Okay, then, the next thing to test is to take the GPU's audio path out of the picture.

Open Start and type Device Manager, then open it. Expand Sound, video and game controllers. Right click NVIDIA High Definition Audio and choose Disable device. If you see multiple NVIDIA audio entries, disable each one.

Now open Settings > System > Sound > More sound settings. On the Playback tab, right click every monitor or NVIDIA output and choose Disable, then set your speakers or headphones on Realtek or USB as Default. Restart Windows and use the PC normally until you hit the choppy drag or scroll again.

Tell me how it behaves with NVIDIA audio fully disabled.

That didn’t seem to fix the issue

Well, at this point you have ruled out apps, drivers, services, clean install, clean boot, GPU audio, and input rate, and perhaps it reproduces only on Windows 11 and not on Windows 10.

The best next step is to get this in front of the Windows graphics team with a Feedback Hub capture and the traces you already recorded.

Open Feedback Hub from Start and choose Report a problem. Give it a short title like Choppy window drag or scroll for a few seconds on dual 144 Hz monitors. Pick the category Display and Graphics then Desktop Window Manager or Windowing if offered.

Now turn on Recreate my problem, start the capture, and use the PC normally. It is fine if the issue takes several minutes to appear. When you have felt the choppy motion for a few seconds, stop the capture and submit.

Before you submit, attach the three .etl traces you created with WPR and your LatencyMon text. Also attach a DxDiag so engineers get exact device and driver info. To create it, press Win+R, type dxdiag, press Enter, click Save All Information, and attach the dxdiag.txt file to the feedback.

In the description, include these facts in one paragraph so triage has full context:

Windows 11 shows brief choppy motion while dragging or scrolling on two 144 Hz Asus monitors. Windows 10 on the same hardware does not show it. Clean install and clean boot still show it. HAGS, VRR, Optimizations for windowed games, Game Bar and background capture are off. MPO was tested off with OverlayTestMode=5. Nvidia audio was disabled for testing. GPU is MSI RTX 4070 Gaming X Trio. Monitors are VG27AQL3A 1440p 144 Hz and VG278Q 1080p 144 Hz.

Once that is submitted, the Windows graphics team can correlate your live capture with your ETL traces and driver stack to isolate the regression. This is the most direct route to a permanent fix.

The interesting thing is that I’ve been talking with a level 2 tech for the past week and half and they can’t come up with a solution either. They want to claim it’s hardware compatibility but my hardware definitely not an issue so it’s a bit tough but I appreciate all your troubleshooting either way

No problem! We tried, but at least with this path the issue will be sent directly to developers, not tech support agents. I know it's a bit of a tedious step, but it will be a valuable contribution if you do it.