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On Thursday Feb 9th at 10:00AM PST there will be a public Expert Zone chat on Internet Explorer. The Expert Zone is a community of Windows enthusiasts and this is the Internet Explorer team’s turn to host a chat session. Members of the IE team will be available and ready to discuss Internet Explorer and of course the recent preview of beta 2 of IE7 is likely to be a hot topic. There is a limit on the number of people that the chat room can contain so unfortunately we cannot guarantee that everyone will be able to participate. Of course the team blog here is a great place to keep up to date on IE progress.
Thanks
- Dave
Comments
- Anonymous
February 07, 2006
"Microsoft.com Chat
To view this specialized content, you are required to sign in with a Microsoft .NET Passport."
Thanks, but no thanks. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
But if Google did it with:
"Google.com Chat
To view this specialized content, you are required to sign in with your Google account."
you wouldn't mind would you? - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
That sounds very exiting. Being a web developer I have a lot of questions about IE7. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
where dit my comment go?? That thing they call the Internet is a strange place... - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
Something's wrong with your browser detection in the Chat Room area:
----
Sorry, There Was a Problem Loading the Chat Application.
* Microsoft.com Chat is not currently compatible with your Internet browser and/or computer operating system.
What You Need to Enjoy Microsoft.com Chat.
You'll need to install one of the following browsers to use Microsoft.com Chat.
* Internet Explorer 4.0 and later for Windows
You can download the latest version for free at: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.asp
* Netscape 6.2 and later for Windows
To find out more, go to: http://www.home.netscape.com
* Safari 1.2 and later for Mac
* Mozilla 1.7 and later for Windows
* Firefox .9 and later for Windows
I have Firefox 1.5.0.1 on Windows XP.
----
For some reason it works in IE7 B2 'Preview'. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
"To view this specialized content, you are required to sign in with your Google account."
you wouldn't mind would you?"
That's an erroneous assumption. Two wrongs... - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
Now I can ask my questions, this will be fun. Have been in several chats, and have always been very useful.
Thanks for the heads up. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
I dunno, I find just commenting on this blog to be enough for me. Acknowledge me Dave... (see?)
Although I cannot enter the chat room:
Microsoft.com Chat is not currently compatible with your Internet browser and/or computer operating system. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
I wish I could be there to chat, since I want to learn and speak my mind about IE7 but I have school. I will try to get in on this, however. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
PingBack from http://www.what.semant.info/2006/02/03/ie7-wants-mozilla-blood/ - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
We just announced a chat with the IE team on the team blog at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/02/07/526980.aspx... - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
I think you should make IE7 Beta 3 Preview so that you can open folders in it and it will look like a Windows Vista Document Explorer (you know what I mean) instead of having it open in a new Explorer, like IE6, but different. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
Incase I don't make the chat, one important question I must have answered would be:
Do you plan on making annual, bi-annual, tri-annual, etc updates to IE7 or is this going to be a "release and forget" kind of application, kind of like IE in the past?
Opera, Firefox, Safari, Konqueror all have methods of reporting bugs (from the public and visible to the public) which get dealt with relatively quickly. The four browsers mentioned above (OFSK) come out with a couple updates a year.
Since you said some things can't and won't be put into IE7 due to time restrictions and such, do you think an update will occur months later to add some features or fix some problems?
If not, how much support will IE7 get?
I hope that question can get answered either here or in the chat by developers.
Thank you. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
"The four browsers mentioned above (OFSK) come out with a couple updates a year.
Since you said some things can't and won't be put into IE7 due to time restrictions and such, do you think an update will occur months later to add some features or fix some problems?
If not, how much support will IE7 get?"
I second that. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
Hi Nick & game kid,
We are certainly aiming to get back to a regular and frequent release cycle after a gap of a few years since IE6. This is of course in addition to the continuous work the team does for critical updates made available on Windows update. Exactly how frequent is of course a little difficult to predict but we are as a team committed to moving the browser forward as quickly as we can.
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
Sadly, I probably will not be able to join this chat, but I did want to make one comment to Dave's reply.
A "regular and frequent release cycle" will be challenging in the face of forcing users to overwrite their previous version of IE every time a new one is released (beta or otherwise). This will definitely affect the quality of your Beta cycles, since only the professional web developers have the resources to have one machine per IE version.
Personally, I won't consider upgrading to IE7 until it is officially released and I hear generally positive feedback from a wide variety of sources - and I know I'm not alone here.
I hope the feedback you are getting for IE7 Beta 2 with respect to this issue means the IE team will be seriously looking at creating SUPPORTED STANDALONE VERSIONS of the browser in future iterations. If Opera and Firefox can do it in a few megabytes, why can't Internet Explorer?
Thanks for your time.
Respectfully,
Jeff Schiller - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
I will also miss the chat. Here are my main questions:
1. Many developers have pleaded that IE7's initial release should have full support for CSS2. Is it still possible for the initial release to be delayed in order to accomodate this request?
2. How will IE7's update system work? Will it be simple enough so that even those who are not too experienced with computers will be able to update without any hassles? This is important because if developmental features were added in a .5 release, many users would not even think to update from their old version, or not know how to, or not even know there was an update.
3. How will IE7 be integrated into Windows? Wouldn't IE7 being released on both XP and Vista force a reprieve from IE's deep ties with the OS architechture? [My Windows OneCare Live software already won't work with IE7's beta release.] Is this a concern for the IE dev team? - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
Why is internet explorer asking me whether I would like to enable AutoComplete after I've delete all browsing history?? Any other recognised this? - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
Doesnt work in Firefox... Typical. Have you not got any developers that can make cross browser web aps? I wont be there. You really need to start to open up. - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
Hi Dave,
I won't be at this IE chat, but wanted to ask an IE specific question, if I may.
Throughout this blog, I've seen many comments asking about multiple IE installs on a PC. However, I personally don't believe that all these request are intended to refer to IE as a whole, but in fact just then rendering engine (which I believe is MSHTML.dll?) so that people who build web sites can simple see how their site is rendered in IE's 6 and 7 (perhaps 5.5 still)
I'm just curious if HTML / CSS / JavaScript rendering is all contained within this one dll, or if the rendering process is splt across multiple parts of IE / Windows's core?
If it is a case of just MSHTML being the dll that people need to view page rendering, then could a switch be considered for the IE web developer tool bar (as well as a copy of the MSHTML.dll file for each IE version)? Or is the whole thing a little more complicated that this?
Personally, I see no reason for a full install of multiple IE's, when my guess is that the rendering part of IE is all that people require.
Apologies if this has already been covered, but this blog has seen a lot of new content over the last week, and it simply too much for me to keep up with.
Regards,
- Chris - Anonymous
February 07, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Is there an ICS file for this chat so I can add it to Outlook? - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Chris: you can get standalone versions of previous versions of IE at http://browsers.evolt.org/?ie/32bit/standalone. No install needed, just extract and run (lots of stuff in the UI might act weird, but just to test a site with the old rendering engine it works perfectly). - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Want to speak your piece to the folks working on Internet Explorer 7? Here's your chance: On Thursday Feb 9th at 10:00AM PST there will be a public Expert Zone chat on Internet Explorer. The Expert Zone is a community... - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Josef,
We have tested the chat in recent versions of Firefox and it does work for us. Can you provide details of how it is not working for you and I'll pass it on to the chat team to see what we can do.
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
"But if Google did it with:
Google.com Chat
To view this specialized content, you are required to sign in with your Google account.
you wouldn't mind would you?"
Actually, Google Chat uses Jabber/XMPP, which is an open protocol that can be used freely by anyone. There exist numerous clients. So no, I wouldn't mind. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
I'm not going to make the chat session, so I'll post my question here, I hope that's alright with you guys.
I've heard a lot about how the CSS implementation will be improved, which sounds very nice. But how's the status on XHTML? I understand that IE6 only accepts text/html, even though the most correct MIME-type for XHTML documents is application/xhtml+xml. I also think there are other problems with the current implementation.
What are your plans with XHTML? Will you further support it?
Next on my list is this: Do you plan to support at least some of CSS 2.1? I know it's only a Candidate Recommendation, but if you read the definitions on the W3C site, it's stated that RC's are meant for recommendation - a specification only becomes a Recommendation after it has been implemented by several vendors. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Browser Detection is Busted
Just signed up for a MS Passport, to enter this chat. (note: I did not want to do this, but this one time, I will throw my good sense out the window so that I can talk to the IE Devs.)
What annoyed me though, was once I signed in, the Chat page tells me that Firefox 1.5 is not a valid browser to "Enjoy" a Microsoft Chat.
After I stopped laughing at the Irony of the page (and took a screenshot to use as my wallpaper)
I read further, to realize that it is SUPPOSED to be supported, but obviously the Browser detection is flawed. (not even going to go into the... "You should know by now, that browser detection is evil speach..."
So, What's up? It is Wednesday now. Will this be fixed by Tomorrow?
********************************************* - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
I would really love an OPML import (and export, but this is less important) feature for importing RSS feeds from my current reader application. Is this something we can expect for the IE 7 release? - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Yes, the browser protection is busted. It also lists my browser as being unsupported and then in the list of supported browsers, clearly lists the browser I use.
Also, don't use what other browsers don't support in CSS as an excuse to not support it. That's never a good thing. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
No wonder there are login issues!
Rule #1 of HTML (SGML, XML, etc.)
If you open a tag, you need to close it.
(I'm not even talking about tags that don't have a matching close tag, we're talking about the opening tag isn't even closed!)
<table ...attributes... <next tags/>...</table>
Not even a closing '>' on the table open tag!
I would think that even Front Page would catch an error like that. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Can those people who cannot access the chat room please let us know the exact browser and version they are using along with details of the Operating System. Also visit http://www.fiddlertool.com/useragent.aspx and let us know the User Agent string being reported there. The chat team has been working to let recent browsers access the chat room and will want to know the problems.
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Sven asked "Is there an ICS file for this chat so I can add it to Outlook?"
Yes. Follow the link in the post http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/default.mspx and you'll see a link there to an ics file against each of the scheduled chats. In the case of the IE chat it is http://www.microsoft.com/communities/chats/vcs/06_0209_EZ_ie.ics
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
-------------[quote]-------------
Rule #1 of HTML (SGML, XML, etc.)
If you open a tag, you need to close it.
(I'm not even talking about tags that don't have a matching close tag, we're talking about the opening tag isn't even closed!)
-------------[/quote]-------------
HTML 4.01 does not require closing tags. The above would be a rule of XHTML, XML and the like.
Anyways, in addition to my above question (which was answered, briefly), what is the reason for not having CSS2(.1) - even 80% of it? Is it the timeframe you have, knowledge and workload or what? I don't mean to put any of the dev. team down as they're doing a great job but if Opera, Konqueror, Firefox, iCab and Safari can have a good amount of CSS2.1, what is stopping IE7?
Keep up the good work, guys. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Mozilla Firefox 1.5 on WinXP:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Firefox/1.5.0.1
Opera 8.51 on WinXP:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en) Opera 8.51
Neither one of the above works.
(I realize that Opera isn't in the list of supported browsers, but it useually reports as "MSIE", and supports all the typical Web Standard DOM manipulation stuff (e.g. It should work, and will only not work if the developer has specifically filtered it out (bad), or mis-read it as a pure legacy IE browser) - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Hi Dave,
I have posted some screenshots for the development team to show them the problems i am getting when trying to access the chatroom using firefox version 1.5.0.1
Here: http://burninthespotlight.com/iebug/chat_problem2.jpg
http://burninthespotlight.com/iebug/chat_problem3.jpg
Thanks, cause id like to view the chat, but its not working for me. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
@nick.
True, HTML 4.01 does not require closing tags on all elements, however, if a web developer opens a tag, that has a close tag. e.g. table, div, b, i, u, script,... pretty much all of em except br, hr, and img.
Then, yes, the closing tag, may not be "required", but you would be a fool, not to add one. If I was to create a woefully malformed SGML document, I would hardly be able to expect a browser to render it correctly. If the browser does render it, great, but it is the web developers responsibility to at least do their best to send in valid, logical markup. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Nick asked "Anyways, in addition to my above question (which was answered, briefly), what is the reason for not having CSS2(.1) - even 80% of it? Is it the timeframe you have, knowledge and workload or what? I don't mean to put any of the dev. team down as they're doing a great job but if Opera, Konqueror, Firefox, iCab and Safari can have a good amount of CSS2.1, what is stopping IE7?"
Some of the work to support full CSS2.1 requires some architectural changes to how the rendering engine handles layout and there has simply not been time to undertake that in the IE7 release. Rather than take a lot longer to release a browser that was fully supportive of CSS2.1 we felt it much more useful to the web development community if we addressed the most egregious issues as soon as we could along with support for CSS2.1 functionality that web developers have been requesting such as fixed positioning and selectors support. We engaged with body's such as the Web Standards Project and some of the 3rd party sites to confirm that this was the best approach. Have we got more work to do? Yes. You can expect us to continue to improve support for CSS and other standard recommendations in future releases. The updates to CSS support in IE7 outlined at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/02/02/523679.aspx are clearly a significant step forward in responding to the demands of web developers.
On the issue of other browsers accessing the chat room I can assure you that the chat team is aware of and actively working on the issue at this time.
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Thank you for a response. I know you will follow through with post-release support.
=) - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Hiya,
Any reason the Windows XP Pro x64 users were excluded from the Beta 2?
Dasher - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Dasher asked "Any reason the Windows XP Pro x64 users were excluded from the Beta 2?"
Even though the builds are all built from the same codebase there are some differences and additional testing is involved in making preview releases available so that the feedback is useful. For this preview of beta 2 of IE7 we concentrated on making a build available for XP SP2 as soon as we could to get some early feedback. You can expect to see an x64 build available in a later preview.
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Can those people who were having problems accessing the chat room in FF please let me know if you still cannot get in?
We'd like to confirm that the issue has been addressed now.
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Correct me if I am wrong in saying this.
Internet Explorer CAN be run as a stand-alone browser by editing a few files that are inside the installer. It behaves like almost every browser on the market and is not integrated into the OS. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Fiery,
We've already discussed this extensively on other posts here. Although it CAN be done it is unsupported as we cannot guarantee it will work for every scenario.
There are plenty of things I CAN do but that does not mean I SHOULD do them if I wish to have a reliable system.
It'd be great to have questions in the chat tomorrow that haven't already been readily answered on the team blog :)
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Fiery Kitsune,
When someone does this, they wind up pulling DLL files from multiple locations. Eric Lawrence has discussed this a bit in comments here. It creates a "Frankenbrowser" that is some of IE7 and some of IE6. It isn't a good idea.
- Al Billings [MSFT] - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Sorry!! But now another bug has occurred.. i dont see any users in the user list on the right hand side, even though i know there are well over 25 users, but it only shows 1 user. Any ideas??? Sorry to be a pain, but might as well help you guys get the chat working full in FF1.5.0.1 HUH :) - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Thanks for the report Josef.
I've just confirmed with the chat team that this is a bug where only users who enter the chat room after you show in the list. They are investigating but it is unlikely to be fixed for tomorrow’s chat. Hopefully this won't prevent you from participating tomorrow. As I said earlier there is a limit on the number of people who can attend so that the chat remains both responsive and manageable. Hopefully those that want to will be able to participate.
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
DMassy
"I've just confirmed with the chat team that this is a bug where only users who enter the chat room after you show in the list. They are investigating but it is unlikely to be fixed for tomorrow’s chat. "
Why not use plain old IRC?*
*Rhetorical question - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
In case I'm not on the chat today, I'd like to address two pretty annoying behaviors of IE7b2:
1. When the page load is complete and IE doesn't have focus at that time, it regains it.
2. When I type in an address to load in a tab, press enter, switch to other tabs and go back to see if the page is there, and it's not, address bar contains about:blank or whatever previous address there was. So if I open a few tabs, try to open up some websites in them, if I lose the internet connection for some reason, all I'm left there are the about:blank addresses. Really annoying.
Otherwise, great stuff. Opera 9 TP 2 is tempting but IE7b2 wins so far. ;) - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Again, as I won't be in the chat, could I ask what the IE teams view / goal is regarding scalable images in general (the only one I know of is SVG)?
I only ask because having just use the page zoom feature, which I think is a fantasic addition, I'm cruious if you plan to implement any scaleable image rendering, so that web pages as a whole can be fully zoomed, reduced without any bluriness, and such like, making page sizes and such a lesser problem when it comes to web sites.
Thanks. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
Oh, and Sven Groot, thanks for that link. - Anonymous
February 08, 2006
PingBack from http://www.onlinemarketingspot.com/wp/?p=63 - Anonymous
February 09, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 09, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 09, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 09, 2006
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February 09, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 10, 2006
I was at the chat.
Nice to see so many MS teammembers being present and managing to answer a lot of the 200+ questions asked.
Not many new information though but I wasn't really expection that either as a lot of info is already out there.
Quite a few question about a absence of a download manager. Something that could get in in future versions.
Also quite a few about add-ons for IE7. People seem to want more info on how to build add-ons and where to find add-ons that block commercial content. IE7 will have a bit more for add-ons than previous versions (I think the detection method was quoted as an example) but I hope someone from the team will ad an article on the blog about it as I have not seem much info about addons on this blog yet.
Off course a whole lot of CSS question but nothing new. The much debated min/max:height stuff is still a possibility but not a certainty for the final version. - Anonymous
February 14, 2006
I downloaded the latest version IE 7 beta and I have had nothing but trouble. I has a lot of issues with JS. I wish you guys incorporated a JS console so I can see what erros occur. It is so annoying when I try to debug my code.
And I decide to uninstall it and oohhh no I doesn't want to go off my system.
Does any body have any suggestions how I can get IE 6 back on my machine - Anonymous
February 15, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
February 16, 2006
Alex,
Internet Explorer does not currently support XHTML. It will support well formed HTML but strict XTHML parsing is not currently supported. That is something for a future release.
Thanks
-Dave - Anonymous
February 18, 2006
Would be cool for the context (right-click) menu to contain a "Recent >" twig between the "Back" and "Forward" actions. - Anonymous
February 20, 2006
Hi
Installed IE7B2 and now i can't login to my MS Money 2005.
Tried to install Trail MC Money 2006, but i only works when I login as Admnistrator. - Anonymous
February 20, 2006
The comment has been removed - Anonymous
June 17, 2007
As announced on the IE team blog at
