Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 2 (June 9, 2005)

Posted: June 9, 2005

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Welcome to today’s chat. Our chat today about Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 2!
We are pleased to welcome our Experts for today’s chat. I will have them introduce themselves now.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Hi! I'm Lynda Allen- Test Engineer for Component Integration on XPe

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Let’s begin the chat. We welcome you to begin submitting your questions for our Experts. If you have attended previous chats, you may be accustomed to prefacing your question with a Q:, there is no need to do that any longer. Our new chat system will automatically preface your question with a Q:.

Start of Chat

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Its been a quarter or so since the initial release of the XPE SP2 MUI Components. When can we expect the 1.1 versions to fix the errors in them?
A: The issues with MUI files are being tracked, and we are looking at all these as we plan the next version, but there are no definite dates that I can give you. Feel free to send the issues that affect you to mwecrt@microsoft.com alias, so we can make sure we can evaluate the impact to customers and prioritize the work accordingly.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Failed copying file 328310_sysmain.sdb to the QFE repository directory. Repository directory {41B0394B-74D8-4CFD-86C0-BDCE45CE4728} does not exist. Setup cannot continue.
A: Dan, you need to first install 811279 before you can install any other SP1 updates.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: The reason we use XPe is for the small footprint. But when I upgraded to SP2 it went from 60MB to 130MB. Even after taking out Windows Firewall (which I should have had to ask for, not be by default) it's up to 80MB with 15 more components that I don't
A: You may have removed Firewall after running check dependencies and so you would still have all its dependencies in your config. Before running check dependencies add the Core Networking component to your config, then under settings uncheck Windows Firewall and then continue with building your config as normal. This will make sure that Firewall or any of its dependencies are not brought in when running check dependencies.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: In the near future, I will be working on a project which uses Windows Automotive 4.2. Unfortunately, neither VS 2003 nor VS 2005 can be used to target that platform. Will XP Embedded be a workable alternative to Automotive 4.2? If yes, when?
A: I'm not that familiar with the Automative 4.2, so I cannot say. XPe supports x86 platforms only, so I don't know if that is a factor...

Nelson (Expert):
Q: Does anybody had a good handle on "CMI Errors" in SP2 Target Designer--esp. when upgrading SP1 projects to SP2. Any good advice on debugging TD SLX file import errors?
A: I am sorry. CMI Errors are rarely debuggable. Do you have an error that you would like to talk about in particular?

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: i neeedddddd help in .NET
A: esaan, today's chat concerns Windows XP Embedded with SP2. If your question is pertinent to that operating system, our experts can assist. With general .NET-related questions (VB? C#?), I'd suggest posting to the appropriate Microsoft public newsgroup or attending a chat on that topic (schedule is on msdn.microsoft.com/chats)

Nelson (Expert):
Q: I contacted Dell about getting a box with XP embedded. After speaking with several reps, I determined they were pretty uninformed. Any recommendations on where to begin with trying to demo embedded XP? Thanks!
A: Microsoft's website has good information. The distributors are Ardence ,Bsquare.

Nelson (Expert):
Q: "XPe supports x86 platforms only, so I don't know if that is a factor... " I see - so it definitely is a factor. Thanks!
A: Isn't Windows Automotive CE ? [Moderator’s Note: More information regarding Windows Automotive can be found at:
https://www.microsoft.com/windowsautomotive/default.mspx]

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I did do what you suggested about Core Networking w/o Firewall and it's still 33% larger than SP1 with 15 more components such as Wireless Zero Configuration and Credential management User Interface
A: Have you see Andy's thread in the newsgroup related to your question? If you can give us more details of the specific features that have impacted you then we can follow up on investigating specific features. Bear in mind increases some increases come from binary changes which cannot be reduced.

Nelson (Expert):
Q: "Isn't Windows Automotive CE ?" Yes, it is... Sorry, thought about XPe as a future CE version...
A: It’s Windows Mobile 5.0 now.

Nelson (Expert):
Q: Take "known good" SLX from a relatively complex XPEsp1 project. Import into SP2's TD. Upgrade components. Go through several rounds of dependency checking. Save the new SLX--all w/o errors. Now import the SLX--boom. CMI error--can't load file.
A: Do you know what CMI error message you are getting ? The upgrade process might have corrupted something.

JonFi_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Re: the desktop installer - Should I install 811279 in SP2?
A: No, you don't need to apply 811279 to XPE SP2. We included the repository for future updates directly in XPE SP2 - you can verify this by opening Component Database Manager, go to the Repositories tab, and finding the "Windows XP Embedded Client (x86) with Service Pack 2 QFE Repository" entry.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How come in XPE SP2 the desktop QFE support doesn't install. It tells me to install Q842930_xpe_sp2_x86_enu.exe and that can't install because it’s missing Repository directory {41B0394B-74D8-4CFD-86C0-BDCE45CE4728}. Shouldn't you get this fixed?
A: There is no SP2 desktop QFE support component. This component was an update for SP1 only. BUT, the QFE desktop support component was just a macro component that made sure you had the necessary components in you runtime that allowed you to be able to install Pro updates on the device-if your config has all the components listed in the Desktop QFE Support component already, then you are good to go.

Nelson (Expert):
Q: what is meant by host generic error?
A: When do you get this error?

Nelson (Expert):
Q: In my current case that--I have in front of me: "Configuration Management Interface (CMI) Error Code = 0x800a01c9" Why would the "Upgrade Process Corrupt Something?" Is there no validation checking of the code/DB structions?
A: The .slx is corrupted. You will need to build a new .slx. Sorry no other way.

JonFi_MSFT (Expert):
Q: The release notes for the SP2 upgrade say the database update fails if the Studio is not installed on the same machine. Does this mean if I want the database on a separate server, I also have to install the Studio even if it'll never be used?
A: The SP2 upgrade uses the same installer technology as our previous security and feature updates, which means it needs access to the CMI layer to provide communication with the XPE database. Because a tools install installs CMI, you can upgrade your remote database by performing the upgrade from your tools machine, provided you have set Component Database Manager to use the database on that machine.

Nandini_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I contacted Dell about getting a box with XP embedded. After speaking with several reps, I determined they were pretty uninformed. Any recommendations on where to begin with trying to demo embedded XP? Thanks!
A: To get you started with the XP Embedded Technology you can go the website https://msdn2.microsoft.com/embedded/aa731378.aspx. You can download the XP Embedded Eval copy from there.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is Andy's thread from today? What keywords can I search the archives for it?
A: He replied last night . You should be able to search for posts by Andy Allred on 6/8/2005

JonFi_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Whenever I use internet I get an error message displayed" host generic error for win 32 services. This program needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience"
A: Sabeesh, is this on an XPE machine? If so, can you reproduce the problem from an XP Pro machine? If not, this is the wrong discussion for resolution of this issue. I would suggest taking this up in the Internet Explorer or Windows XP newsgroup.

Nandini_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I contacted Dell about getting a box with XP Embedded. After speaking with several reps, I determined they were pretty uninformed. Any recommendations on where to begin with trying to demo embedded XP? Thanks!
A: You can download the XP Embedded Eval copy from https://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/eval/trial.mspx. The Help docs for XP embedded are at https://msdn2.microsoft.com/embedded/aa731378.aspx. This should give you a good idea on how to use XP Embedded and build and Embedded image for your target demo device.

Nelson (Expert):
Q: How do SLX'es get corrupted? How can one guard against this? Has there been any investigation as to the causes? Is MSXML v.3/v4 any part of this dance? Does the XPE group have a favored release? Any comments on WSH/VMscript releases w/r to this issue?
A: You can make multiple copies of the .slx to safeguard corruption

Nandini_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How should I eliminate this "host generic error"?
A: Do you get this error when using IE through XP Embedded? Could you fill in more details?

JonFi_MSFT (Expert):
Q: What is an XPE machine?
A: XPE refers to Windows XP Embedded, which is a stripped down version of the Windows XP operating system designed to run on embedded systems, such as cash registers, thin clients, industrial automation, set-top boxes, or kiosks. From your question, it sounds like you're not using XPE, so I would bring this question up in either an Internet Explorer or Windows XP forum.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Then yes, I saw Andy's thread and that's where I discovered the blog about how to remove Windows Firewall. I posted back to him a list of extra components that, even without Firewall, come in that I don't need/want.
A: Take a look at this blog post to get a better idea of the dependency chain and why components bring in other components -https://blogs.msdn.com/embedded/archive/2005/03/18/398989.aspx. It looks like many of the SP2 binaries for features in your config have new static dependencies on other binaries which are owned by other components, hence those components get brought in. Removing "unwanted" components from your configuration that are brought in by the dependency chain may have unforeseen functionality consequences down the line and is not recommended.

JonFi_MSFT (Expert):
Q: In my case, I'm trying to track back from a component to all the things that are dependent on it up to the root dependency. Is there some kind of tool that can browse the dependency tree?
A: Go to https://www.sjjmicro.com and order Sean Liming's book and toolset combo called "Windows XP Embedded Supplemental Toolkit". He has a tool in that toolkit that can list dependencies for a given component - while it won't list the entire component chain, it will give reverse dependencies (what components depend on the given component), which you can use to build the tree you are looking for.

Nelson (Expert):
Q: I implement revision control in my build process. The issue where: The tool created and saved the SLX w/o error. Then 1 second later refused to import the same file. Now--if the SLX has been corrupted--its been via an internal process to TD. Which means
A: RESTART.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: what is the best xmpp chat client to use with a ipaq 6300 series pda?
A: Hey mike, that question's probably a bit off topic for today's Windows XP Embedded chat. Might I suggest asking this in the newsgroups? Perhaps microsoft.public.pocketpc?

Nelson (Expert):
Q: How about a tool or 'best way' to print out all the components that are in a particular TD .slx file?
A: Build Log.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Now--on to the latest "request" I have from customers: "Debranding XPE"--getting rid of all Microsoft Logos and artwork--i.e. this is an "EMBEDDED solution--they want their logo in from of the end users--not Microsoft's!
A: This is a common request that we definitely have in the forefront of our minds as we move forward. It is possible to remove many of the splash screens etc. (tons of newsgroup posts on this - microsoft.public.windowsxp.embedded), but there is still some branding left tied to the kernel, making it not a quick and easy change.

JonFi_MSFT (Expert):
Q: If I came into the chat in the middle how can I see the previous answers?
A: There will be a transcript of the entire chat posted to MSDN in a day or so for you to review.

Nelson (Expert):
Q: Just wanted to thank all the experts for their time and answers!
A: Our pleasure and thanks for using our embedded products.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: The BRANDING" issue has got to be the single strongest argument against the use of a Microsoft "EMBEDDED" product. [e.g. all of the other eOS products know how to stay out of end users faces...]
A: Thanks for this feedback. It's an issue that's been heard before and the product group folks are listening. Just keep telling them!

Nelson (Expert):
Thanks for coming and we will see you guys next time.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Thank you for joining us today for our Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 2! chat.

We hope to see you again for another private chat in the future! Thanks for your patience as we had experts running from other buildings to be here. I appreciate all of the questions. I think the next XPE chat will be in August, but the product group folks will be out in the newsgroups like always. :-)

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