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Windows CE .NET

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Posted January 8, 2003

Chat Date: January 6, 2003

Chat Participants:

  • Mike Hall, Program Manager
  • David Silver, Development Lead
  • Brian Kramer, Development Lead
  • Kelvin Hoover, Group Program Manager
  • Jonathan Tanner, Program Manager

Host Guide_KenM
Welcome to today's MSDN Chat. Our topic is Windows CE .NET. Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome.

Host Guide_KenM
The BOTTOM room (Embedded Chat Participants) is where you can enter questions for our Hosts today. We will read them and select questions to answer. The questions and answers will be posted in the TOP room (Embedded Chat Experts).

Host Guide_KenM
Please feel free to begin posting your questions in the room below. Please begin your questions with a Q: this will help us quickly identify the questions.

Host Guide_KenM
We will make an effort to answer as many questions as we can. We also encourage you to post questions in the MSDN newsgroups.

Host Guide_KenM
We want to take a moment and instruct customers to go up to the Chat Options located at the top of the screen and to turn off the option that does not display messages with URLs and to turn on "allow whispers".

Host Guide_KenM
We have a full line-up of SMEs (Subject Matter Experts) for you today!

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
Hi, I am the GPM for Windows CE Tools. Welcome.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: BillWalter: Are ther CE .NET based devices available for purchase now?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: Yes, there are a number of devices running Windows CE .NET - you can find these described on https://www.windowsfordevices.com

Host Guest_Susan_MS
I'm a developer on the Windows CE OS team. In the past I worked on the file system/registry/databases and now I work on systemic performance.

Host Guest_davidms_ms
Hi, I'm the applications and UI lead for the Windows CE team

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
Q: A .NET enabled headless device would be of great use for embedded applications. Are there any reasons that the .NET compact framework will not work in a headless environment?

Host Guest_briankr_ms
<-- Windows CE Compilers dev lead

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
A: At this time, the .NET Compact Framework is not supported in a headless environment.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: Anchal : What is it that sets Windows CE.NET apart from Windows CE? What are the major differences that we will see in the devices?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: There a number of differences between Windows CE 3.0 and Windows CE .NET, specifically, .NET refers to the ability to host and call XML Web Services

Host Guest_jtanner_ms
Hi, I'm a PM on the Windows CE tools team that works on applications and the Windows CE.NET emulator.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: andrew: What are the differences between the compact framework for .net and the CE.Net

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: Windows CE .NET is an operating system, the .NET Compact Framework hosts Visual Studio .NET based applications, created in VB.NET or C#

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
Q: Will Visual Basic be fully supported for WindowsCE.NET as it is for WindowsCE. I hear some rumors that only VC++ will be supported.

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
A: .NET Compact Framework that supports VB.NET is available in Windows CE .NET 4.1 and above.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: BillWalter: Is there a list of existing Pocket PC devices that are going to support a CE.NET upgrade?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: PocketPC has not announced anything about whether it will support devices running CE.NET.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: For more information about the .NET Compact Framework and Visual Studio .NET 2003 - go to this URL

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: BillWalter: Is there a Pocket PC application layer currently available for CE.NET?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: No

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: BillWalter: Is there a CE.NET Microsoft Money application available?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: Not from Microsoft. You may be able to find 3rd-party viewers for Money files but I don't know of any.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: BillWalter: Is there a CE.NET Microsoft Project application available?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: Not from Microsoft. You may be able to find 3rd-party viewers for Project files but I don't know of any.

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
Q: I just installed the new VS.NET 2003 RC1. Do I need to reinstall the CF framework as well?

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
A: No, it is included in the RC1.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: Sid : When will the SDK be available for Pocket PC 2002 for VC++ 4.0?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: Pocket PC 2002 is based on Windows CE 3.0, you should use the eMbedded Visual Tools 3.0 to write applications for this device

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
Q: Are there any indications that Compact Framework Applications will start quicker on a CE.NET system then the same system with CE 3.0 and the Compace Framework add-in?

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
A: We don't have anyone online to answer this. Please send me email and I will get you an answer. khoover@microsoft.com

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: Sid : Are there any issues of having VC 3.0 and VC 4.0 installed on te same development machine?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: No, I have both installed and running

Host Guide_KenM
For those new to the chat - Our topic is Windows CE.NET. Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome.

Host Guide_KenM
If you are unable to view the bottom chat window, please refresh your browser.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: dwoodward : What filesystems are available under WindowsCE.NET?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: CE .NET has a RAM file system for storing data in. FOr external storage it has FATFS and CDFS/UDFS. Also for debugging purposes we supply a "release file system" which mounts your host PC's release directory as a directory on the device.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: diznave: We've been experiencing some problems with our x86-based FAT filesystem with FAT corruption. Is TFAT still slated to be released with CE 4.2 ?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: Yes.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: MattMadMa : Hi, will it still be possible to use VirtualAlloc() / VirtualCopy() in order to access physical memory in Windows CE.NEt?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: Yes, and you should also look at AllocPhysMem to see which is right for you.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: yuvalshamir : I have WIN98SE... I can to write applications anyway?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: You can use eMbedded Visual Tools to write applications, you cannot use the emulator, this only runs on Windows 2000/XP

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: VB : When will windows CE.net be in mainstream release

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: Now

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: MattMadMa : Will Windows CE.NET have optimizations for XScale Pocket PCs?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: Windows CE 4.1+QFE or 4.2 have optimizations for ARM in general, but PocketPC has not announced anything about whether it will support devices running CE.NET.

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
Q: What are the differences between the compact framework for .net and the CE.Net

Host Guest_Kelvin_MS
A: CE.NET includes the .NET Compact Framework.

Host Guest_gabe_MS
Q: steve : I have a framework layered over Win32 API - works on CE 3 - should I basically be able to rebuild and go for Win CE .NET?

Host Guest_gabe_MS
A: CE 3.0 applications should run on CE.NET. You can rebuild if you need to.

Host Guest_gabe_MS
A: Steve, you don't need to rebuild your CE 3.0 applications but you may want to take advantage of the latest compilers.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: BillMc: Susan, is the preformance of compact flash under CE .NET being addressed? If so, when can we expect improvements to appear?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: CF performance over IDE is being addressed in CE 4.3.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: clintsinger: Is there anyone online who can answer my Direct3D for CE.NET question?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: No experts -- I think you should be able to use D3D without hardware FP. We're trying to find out for sure.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: andrew: What are the programming differences when writing applications for the Pocket pc and CE.NET using the compact framework?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: The compact framework exposes the same classes/functions for both Windows CE .NET and PocketPC, you would need to be careful from calling any o/s or device specific API's through pInvoke

Host Guest_Michael_MS
Q: Clarke: I would like to capture images from a low-cost USB camera like the Logitech QuickCam. Where can I get drivers? Or, how hard is it to write my own drivers? (Note: 1394 Cameras are too expensive for my application)

Host Guest_Michael_MS
A: We don't ship any drivers for USB cameras, although I understand they are not difficult to develop. You can look at our sample USB class drivers as an example.

Host Guide_KenM
We're just over halfway into today's chat. Are there any outstanding questions we've missed?

Host Guide_KenM
For those new to the chat - Our topic is Windows CE.NET. Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: diznave: Followup from previous question on headless version of CF: We have a number of peripheral boxes (headless) that would benefit. Is this on the roadmap?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: headless is not supported in version 1 of the .NET Compact Framework, we've not announced any features for future versions

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: Is there anyone online who can answer my Direct3D for CE.NET question?

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: Got an answer for you Clint. It should work, although performance is not going to be very great.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: andrew: Can I make changes / replace the Today screen through pInvoke in the compact framework, Is there API to use, or is that still reserved for the C++ API only.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: You can call out to 'native' code from a compact framework application, you cannot call into a compact framework application, today screen add-ins are Win32 'native' DLL's that expose specific functions

Host Guest_Michael_MS
Q: What is the fastest processor and largest ram of any CE.NET device current available for consumer purchase?

Host Guest_Michael_MS
A: Not sure what is currently available, but 400mhz XScale with 64 mb ram Pocket PCs are available.

Host Guide_KenM
We are going to have to wrap up this chat in about 15 minutes. We will continue to work on answers to questions. If you asked a question earlier that we missed, please go ahead and repost it now.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: BetaV: Any word on when remoting is to be added to the CF?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: this isn't supported in version 1.0, we've not announced features beyond version 1.0

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: BetaV: Peter B attended several of your CE workshops last summer and fall. I was invited, but didn't feel I was up to speed enough to attend. Are you going to host anymore of these sessions? I'm trying to get enough material together for...

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: We've recently run a Windows Embedded Developers Conference in the US, we're about to run these conferences in Asia and Europe - upcoming events are listed on the Windows Embedded web site.

Host Guest_jtanner_MS
Q: I have a CE application that replicates it's database to SQL Server on startup. I've found that I have to make sure the device (emulator) can "connect" to the web before this works. Can't I configure this permanently?

Host Guest_jtanner_MS
A: Yes, you can by configuring the emulator to use the Virtual switch, or "shared IP" instead of the NAT. You can set this up in the PB Configure Named Connection dialog.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: Amy: What is the use of ROMOFFSET in startup.asm? I get in the startup function, but I get stuck when I have the db 0EAh. Instead of InpMode+Romoffset, I tried to have the address of InpMode(the one after compiling in romboot.map), but no luck...

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: ROMOFFSET is used to tell the bootloader where the exact physical address of ROM is and is mostly used in bootloader, where you want the bootloader to be in FLASH but running out of RAM. Should be 0 for NK in most cases. Non-zero will mean you added code to make NK copy itself to RAM.

Host Guide_KenM
We'll be ending in about 10 minutes. Please ask any final questions, or repost anything we may have missed, and we'll try and get to them.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: Amy: Do you have an idea why I cannot enter the protected mode (InpMode)? I looked at the map file to adjust my addresses, but no luck. I cannot enter the InpMode...

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: We don't know what you mean by InpMode. Could you explain a little more about why are trying to do it?

Host Guide_KenM
We are going to have to end in a few minutes. We're working on our final answers now.

Host Guest_jtanner_MS
Q: MattMadMa : Where can I find more info about Raw IR? I want to use my PocketPC as a TV remote control using a software I programmed myself...

Host Guest_jtanner_MS
A: Most Pocket PCs in the market today only support data IR, not raw modes. You will need to check with the specific OEM manufacturer to learn more about the IR port in their device.

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
Q: MattMadMa : is there a chat log of all this?

Host Guest_mikehall_MS
A: Yes, this will be posted in a few days

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: Chris : What kinds of calls can be made within a Kernel IO Control? Which process/slot is code running in? This is all very confusing, please make better docs for ithis.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: The OAL, including Kernel IOCTLs, is linked with the kernel. The current process will be the process which called the IOCTL. You shouldn't make any system calls that are not also statically linked to the kernel. Most of the APIs you are allowed to c

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: (cont'd) Most of the APIs you are allowed to call are prefixed with "NK" like NKCreateStaticMapping.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: Amy: In startup.asm we have something like this : dd OFFSET InPMode + ROM_OFFSET. InPMode is an offset where we have other initializations...

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: There is no startup.asm that I know of, is it your own code??

Host Guest_gabe_MS
A: Steve, you don't need to rebuild your CE 3.0 applications but you may want to take advantage of the latest compilers.

Host Guest_gabe_MS
Q: andrew : Are there any classes for reading and wrtting to the CE.NET or pocket pc Registry?

Host Guest_gabe_MS
A: The MFC class CRegKey is supported.

Host Guest_Susan_MS
Q: Amy: No, it is not my own code. This file is included with the romboot of Wince... WINCE410\PUBLIC\COMMON\OAK\CSP\I486\ROMBOOT

Host Guest_Susan_MS
A: Okay, we found the code. I think we are going to have to take this to the newsgroups. If you post on microsoft.public.windowsce.embedded we will try to get the right person to answer you.

Host Guide_KenM
Thanks for joining us today and for all the great questions. It's time for us to go now. You'll be able to find the transcript of this chat soon on the MSDN Web site at https://msdn.microsoft.com/chats/recent.asp

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