.NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming Features of VS.NET
Posted January 31, 2004
Chat Date: January 15, 2004
Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity
Introduction
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Welcome to today's .NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming features of VS.NET chat! Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Let’s introduce our hosts for today.
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Hi, I'm Ginny Caughey. I'm president of Carolina Software Inc, and we produce vertical market apps for desktop and CE devices.
Host: sholden (Microsoft)
Hi, I am Scott Holden, Software Development Lead for the .NET Compact Framework. My specific responsibilities include the Execution Engine.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
I'm Chris Tacke, Co-Founder of OpenNETCF.org and CE Product Manager at Applied Data Systems
Host: DanF (MVP)
I'm Dan Fergus, a Consultant in .NET and CF in particular and a Co-Author with Larry Roof on a CF book by Apress
Host: timg (eMVP)
Hi, I'm Tim Gerken, Software Development Test lead for the .NET Compact Framework. My specific responsibilities include Windows.Forms and the rest of the BCL
Host: stevenpr (Microsoft)
I'm Steven Pratschner, Program Manager on the Compact Framework. I work on COM interop and other CLR issues
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
I'm Seth Demsey, Program Manager on the Compact Framework. I work on Winforms the BCL.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Welcome everyone, let’s get started!
Start of Chat
Host: sholden (Microsoft)
Q: Do you plan to make the compact framework componentized in future versions for embedded devices ?, if not, what about support for embedded devices applications that require serial port, barcode scanners, etc (I know this is no priority on SP)
A: There are no plans to componentize the Framework primarily because it would be difficult for developers to know how to target different devices with different components. As to serial port, we are planning on adding serial port support for future release.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: This throws exception in Smartphone hardware (not emulator): IPHostEntry remoteHostEntry = Dns.Resolve(ipAddress); when ipAdddress is numeric (12.233.23.3) but works fine with when ipAdddress is host name (host.something.com). What could be the problem
A: So this happens *only* on the device, correct?
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
A: yes, only in hardware, in emulator works fine
Host: sholden (Microsoft)
Q: This throws exception in Smartphone hardware (not emulator): IPHostEntry remoteHostEntry = Dns.Resolve(ipAddress); when ipAdddress is numeric (12.233.23.3) but works fine with when ipAdddress is host name (host.something.com). What could be the problem
A: What is the specific exception? This is unexpected. Does 127.0.0.1 work?
Host: sholden (Microsoft)
Q: 127.0.0.1 cannot work - there is no serve
A: it should be able to find the loopback...I believe that there is always a loopback address on the device
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Can you increase the Font size on a ListView?
A: In V1, setting the font in a ListView is not supported.
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: What about support for a subset of the Tablet PC digital Ink data type and capture components ? (I know we don't have the same kind of digitizers, but remember the Ink data type can contain data the digitizer is able to get, so a subset is possible)
A: There is no support for Inking in V1. We're adding a managed RichInk control in V2.
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: I was more thinking about something that's binary compatible with Tablet PC Ink
A: There are no plans at this time to move the Tablet Inking functionality to PPC.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: Any chance of getting programmatic access to speech recognition libs used by voice command?
A: Unfortunately, not at this time.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: I noticed that SP2 includes form tabbing, but it seems to get in the way for our application, especially since we want to use the arrow keys for custom functions (paging between tabs, for example). Since there is no TabStop property, Is there another way to disable this functionality per-control or for an entire form? If not, I was thinking of using the new ApplicationEx class (thanks Chris Tacke!) to intercept these messages and handle everything myself.
A: Not really. A MessageFilter would probably work well.
Host: markih (Microsoft)
Q: What's the easiest way to add rows to a DataGrid? (DataGrid.Add "xyz" would be nice )
A: There is no such method as DataGrid.Add, cos the Datagrid is bound to a DataSource, so all you need to do is add the row to the DataSource you bound it to (e.g. DataTable.Rows.Add(DataRow))
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Hello. For those just joining the chat - Our topic is “.NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming features of VS.NET” chat. Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: In .NET CF, how can I pick up command line parameters in the already running version of an app when it is run a second time?
A: With the PPC there is no way (at least that I've found). The CF brings the app to the fore and discards any command line info. My workaround for RunAppAtTime/Event was to use a simple C++ "wrapper" app to pre-process the command-line. Ugly, but functional.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: RE command line args: I'm on Smartphone - any way there? Or same behavior?
A: I've not tried on the SP, but the fact you're asking indicates that it also enforces single app instances like the PPC (this is a non-issue in vanilla CE), so the behavior is likely the same.
Host: stevenpr (Microsoft)
Q: is there any clean way to list items in the GAC, or do we have to code an utility that list \windows\GAC*.* and retrive version information from these files ?
A: There are no api's that allow you to enumerate the GAC, so looking in the file system is the way to go currently. There are also registry entries that record what's in the GAC, but those may change between releases so I wouldn't rely on them.
Host: NeilC (MVP)
Did someone ask about enumerating the GAC? If so, there's an *undocumented* way of doing it. Take a look in the registry at the following key:
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\.NETCompactFramework\Installer\Assemblies\Reference
Just remember it's undocumented and so "subject to change".
Host: timg (eMVP)
Q: Using SP2...is there any way to remove form scrollbars if controls go out of the screen bounds without p/invoke
A: If you set the controls's Visible property to false, the scrollbars on the form should go away. If you want a visible control to stradle the right or bottom edge of the form in landscape mode, there is no way
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: Where can we see some .NET examples of receiving SMS messages and CEMAPI usage...? (not c++)
A: I don't think that we have anything in a "publishable" state, but we can certainly look into this.
Host: kcchesnut (MVP)
Q: is V2 going to have code access security?
A: Yes.
Host: kcchesnut (MVP)
Q: CAS, along with runtime hosting, does that mean we will be able to do href-exes through pocket IE?
A: I think that's something further down the line, but it's starting to look like a possibility.
Host: sholden (Microsoft)
Q: msmobiles Dns.Resolve issue
A: can IE resolve IP address? It sounds like there may be an issue with your proxy configuration through activesync passthrough. What happens if you just go over GPRS network?
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Can I do a URL Encode with the Compact Framework? System.Web.HttpUtility has a UrlEncode method but apparently we don't get that class in the CF.
A: That functionality is not present in the V1 framework. We'll take a look at adding it for V2.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Is there plans to implement the "calli" IL opcode in v2.0? Or maybe better delegate support?
A: Very good question Neil! Once would surely hope so because it would give some great possibilities!
Host: sholden (Microsoft)
Q: Is there plans to implement the "calli" IL opcode in v2.0? Or maybe better delegate support?
A: No plans for calli. What specifically are you looking for delegate support?
Host: sholden (Microsoft)
Q: I'm looking for function pointers. The desktop framework marshals delegates as function pointers when passed to native code
A: We are looking at enabling marshaling delegates for v2.
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: another question: what are license fees if I would like to port .NET runtime based on SSCLI to other platforms and sell it?
A: There are no standard licensing fees - we evaluate requests like this on a case by case basis.
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: no license fees? Can I (and my friends) port SSCLI to other mobile OS and sell it without paying license fees to Microsoft?
A: Sorry - not what I was trying to communicate. We look at these situations one at a time and work out payment on a per-case basis.
Host: NeilC (MVP)
A: The FreeBSD license on the SSCLI basically prevents its use for ANY commercial use. That includes any derivatives, too. The SSCLI is basically for *academic purposes only*
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Any plans for an editable ComboBox in the .NET Compact Framework?
A: We are planning this for V2.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Does Microsoft have any proof of concept applications done in .NET Compact Framework besides CRM Mobile?
A: There are several case studies listed here:
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Thanks for all of your great questions. Our hosts are currently working on responses :-)
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: For location services in V2, is that based off of Microsoft Location Server, or would it use local / Bluetooth GPS devices as well?
A: The location services will be based on a pluggable provider / resolver model allowing use of local location devices (GPS), carrier based, or other location provider.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: Any chance of something like a Voice Commander SDK will be made?
A: Unfortunately, not at this time.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: When and how .net cf SP2 will come to MS Smartphone?
A: SP2 has been released by Microsoft. Now it is up to the OEMs to determine their own release strategies. Your best bet is to contact the phone OEM for time and mechanism.
Host: markih (Microsoft)
Q: Does Data.SqlServerCe.SqlCeCommand.SetRange work correctly? It seems to never include the ending range character. For example, I am passing "a" and "c" as the range and I am only getting a - b in the DataReader
A: I'm not certain we are aware of this problem. If you could post a sample that reproduces the problem to the newsgroup... I'll be happy to investigate further
Host: markih (Microsoft)
Q: I did post the question to the CF newsgroup on 1/13/04 with no response yet
A: I'll follow up on that....
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Looking for a solution to the missing 'Save Bitmap' method in .NetCF for an application running on Smartphone...any links, recommendations?
A: Take a look at this sample:
Host: stevenpr (Microsoft)
Q: Is there an SDK for SPOT devices? How do one get the SDK?
A: I don't believe there is an SDK, but I'd like to do some more looking. I'll follow up....
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Hello. For those just joining the chat - Our topic is “.NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming features of VS.NET” chat. Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Are there any emulators for Windows CE for Automotive?
A: There is no "standard" build for Windows Automotive. An emulator image can be built using Platform Builder if you have the WA adaptation kit, so I recommend talking with your OEM.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
If you've asked a question that we've not responded to, please feel free to re-post.
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
Q: another question: API for text-to-speech on .NET, any plans?
A: Re: Text-to-speech, look at wrapping SAPI.
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
Q: Pardon my naive question: what's SAPI?
A: SAPI is the Speech API which is available in Windows CE .NET 4.2
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
Q: Do you know if there is at least sapi.dll redistributable? (I mean in pocket pc or SmartPhone, not in WindowsXP)
A: I think you can only get SAPI for custom CE platforms
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
Q: Do you mean via PB configuration?
A: You have to license a SAPI compliant speech engine through somebody like ScanSoft - not cheap!
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
Q: So it is available in PocketPC 2003 without the need to install anything? (SAPI)
Host: PeterFoot (MVP)
A: No. SAPI is not included in Pocket PC at all (unless added by another product)
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
Q: So it is available in PocketPC 2003 without the need to install anything? (SAPI)
Host: NeilC (MVP)
A: No, you'd have to install a SAPI-compliant engine (as Peter said)
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
Q: where can I take this SAPI engine from?
Host: NeilC (MVP)
A: You can *buy* (not take) it from ScanSoft and I'm sure there's others too
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
A: There is also SAPI engine from ELAN
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: How many of you are going to write games with NETCF?
A: I am!
Host: PeterFoot (eMVP)
I am thinking about writing an article about how to write games using NETCF. I am in the last phases of finishing mine (a new version of Pocket-Jongg)
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Here are some links that might be useful for game developers:
https://msdn2.microsoft.com/library/aa446577.aspx
https://msdn2.microsoft.com/library/aa446578.aspx
https://msdn2.microsoft.com/library/aa446579.aspx
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Regarding SaveBitmap I think that example is one I've tried but is very, very slow as it scans pixels ...anything planned or available soon on OpenNetCF bits or does SP2 (mentioned above) implement this method?
A: We're adding Bitmap.Save in V2 of the compact framework.
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Are there plans to wrap a mobile 3D API in NETCF? i.e. talking to Fathammer or other companies?
A: we are indeed planning on a managed interface for Direct3D mobile in V2.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: Sorry for naive question: is .NET CF SP2 the same as "V2"?
A: NetCF SP2 means version 1.0, Service Pack 2. V2, is NetCF Version 2.0
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: What support is there for accessing embedded Word and Excel in the .NET CF ?
A: There is no official support as they have no exposed SDK. I'm personally (and slowly) working on some Pocket Excel classes for OpenNETCF, but I can't make any promises on delivery date.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: (slightly off topic) there was unmanaged DirectPlay for PPC 2002, does that work on 2003?
A: Seth believes that it does ;-)
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Is the gap (if there is one) between C# and VB.NET going to grow with v2? I.e. will there be new things you can do with C# but will not be able to do with VB.NET in v2??
A: There will likely always be differentiating features between the languages.. C# has unsafe, and in Whidbey VB will have new convenience classes (MyVB.NET).
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Does that mean we will get global exception handling in v2 (or will the implementation of My be a partial one)?
A: I'm not familiar with the specifics of our ‘My’ implementation. We'll try and look for an answer and put it in the transcript.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
We’ve got about 12 minutes left in today’s “.NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming features of VS.NET” chat. Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: what is the target date for CF v2?
A: We have no announced ship date at this time.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Is there going to be a "Pocket Access"?
A: Pocket Access is simply a data engine. There is no UI front-end (from Microsoft anyway)
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Seth, can you tell us what else of DirectX will you be thinking of making managed in V2?
A: We're working now on a subset of Direct3d and the extension libraries. I should have more to say around MDC in late March.
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Q: is the next version of SQLCE going to work on SmartPhones?
A: There has been no announcement to that effect.
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Q: would it be possible to bring SQL CE for MS SmartPhone 2003?
A: There has been no announcement to that effect.
Host: PhMajerus (MVP)
Q: would it be possible to bring SQL CE for MS SmartPhone 2003?
A: As far as I know, CEDB (aka Pocket Access) IS on the SmartPhone.
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
Q: But can I use SQL queries there?
Host: PeterFoot (MVP)
A: No, API access only,. No SQL querying in CEDB
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
Q: But can I use SQL queries there?
Host: PhMajerus (MVP)
A: CEDB never supported SQL queries, ADOCE contained to logic for that
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
Q: I need SQL queries LOCALLY on MS Smartphone - how to do it?
Host: PhMajerus (MVP)
A: You can code a query engine that parse them and get the result using the CEDB API
Host: wojo
Q: I have been beta testing a SQL CE product to increase our load times.
Host: Ginny (MVP)
A: Have you also seen this one: https://www.mrgsoft.com/products/ICO/
Host: stevenpr (Microsoft)
Q: Is there an SDK for SPOT devices? How does one get the SDK?
A: There is currently no SDK available, but the SPOT team is working on a few different development kits for 3rd party providers.
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: ny plans to support XAML or a XAML-like declarative language with the .NET Compact Framework?
A: e're certainly going to track XAML and declarative UI and continue to evolve our mobile platforms. No timeframe yet, but it's something we're looking into.
Host: CJCraft
I'd like to use XAML for .NET Compact Framework too.
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Q: Seth, how about DirectPlay and DirectSound?
A: Not as sure with respect to these components right now. COM interop will let you call the natively if they are on the platform quite easily.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: Do any of the .NET CF or VSD Teams blog?
A: Not that I'm aware of. Who would you like to hear from most? ;-)
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
Q: mikefos: you cannot really make them blog, can you?
A: Alex, I wield amazing powers!! mwuahahaha!. Um, no I can't make them, but I can always ask. ;-)
Host: NeilC (MVP)
mikefos.. Anyone, really. It would just be nice to have the community contact from the inside. I think Seth would have a kick ass blog *looks at Seth* Share the knowledge!
Host: CJCraft
I'd like to see more Microsoft .NET CF bloggers too.
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
Seth! Seth! Seth!
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
I'll consider it.
Host: msmobiles (Microsoft)
sethde: do you have personal URL?
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Yeah, he'll post "There have been no official announcements for ...."
Host: sethde (Microsoft)
Working on it now -- it'll be www.demsey.org shortly….just a Sharepoint up there now.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Thanks for joining us today and thanks for the questions. It's time for us to officially end now, but some folks will be hanging out for a few minutes.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
If you have further questions regarding the Compact Framework, please check out the newsgroup!
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Please see the chats schedule for upcoming topics.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Thanks to all of our hosts!!!!
For further information on this topic please visit the following:
Newsgroups: Mobile and embedded application development topics
Embedded Transcripts: Read the archive
Website: Visit the Mobile & Embedded Developer Center
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