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Windows CE .NET

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PostedMarch 18, 2003

Chat Date: February 27, 2003

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Chat Participants:

  • Jay Loney, Program Manager for Base OS Drivers
  • Jeff Glaum, Software developer responsible for Windows CE board support packages (BSPs)
  • John Marcantonio, Program Manager for CE Multimedia
  • Glenn Davis, Development Lead for Networking in the Windows CE core OS
  • Murtuza Naguthanawala Program Manager, Windows CE Graphics
  • Joseph Lee, Program Manager - Windows CE Networking
  • Shun Mori, Program Manager - Windows CE Browser
  • Sergey Solyanik, Development Lead for CE Servers
  • Yadhu Gopalan, Development Lead for Kernel and Storage

Moderator: Mike Fos (Microsoft)
Welcome to today's Chat. Our topic is Windows CE .NET. Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome.

Let’s introduce our hosts for today.

Host: Jay Loney (Microsoft)
Program Manager for Base OS Drivers. All bus drivers (USB,pcmcia,SD,1394), DeviceManager, Power.

Host: Jeff Glaum (Microsoft)
Hi, my name is Jeff Glaum and I'm a Microsoft software developer responsible for Windows CE board support packages (BSPs).

Host: John Marcantonio (Microsoft)
Good morning everyone. I’m John Marcantonio - a Program Manager for CE Multimedia.

Host: Glenn Davis (Microsoft)
Glenn Davis, development lead for networking in the CE core OS

Host: Martuza (Microsoft)
Murtuza Naguthanawala:Program Manager, Windows CE Graphics

Host: Joseph Lee (Microsoft)
Joseph Lee, Program Manager, Windows CE Networking

Host: Shun Mori (Microsoft)
Shun Mori, Program Manager, Windows CE Browser

Host: Sergey (Microsoft)
Sergey Solyanik, Dev lead for CE Servers

Host: Yadhu (Microsoft)
Yadhu Gopalan, Dev Lead for Kernel and Storage

Moderator: Mike Fos (Microsoft)
Welcome everyone, let’s get started! We have a full line up of experts, so ask away!

Host: Yadhu (Microsoft)
Q: Has MS changed memory and process architecture from CE 3.0 ?

A: We have not changed the memory/process architecture since 3.0. The biggest change we did revolving around this would be to allow certain Dll's to be loaded in Slot 1 so they don't take up Process VM space.

Moderator: Mike Fos (Microsoft)
Q: What new/exciting things can i expect in ppc2003?

A: Unfortunately, we don't have a representative from our Mobile Devices group on the chat, so we can't really comment on PocketPC 2003 functionality.

Moderator: Mike Fos (Microsoft)
Q: When can we expect CE .NET to show up on Pocket PC devices?

A: Unfortunately, we don't have a representative from our Mobile Devices group on the chat, so we can't really comment on PocketPC 2003 futures.

Host: Yadhu (Microsoft)
Q: I would like to use the database in CE. I call CeMountDBVol and CeCreateDatabaseEx2 the results are successful. But when I call then CeOpenDatabaseEx2 I have an error 25, error_seek. Any ideas on that?

A: There could be a problem with your sort order specification.

Host: Sergey (Microsoft)
Q: I call CeOpenDatabaseEx2 (pceguid, &CeOid,TEXT("MyDBase"), 0, CEDB_AUTOINCREMENT, NULL) like this and before this call,in the same function, I call CeMountDBVol so I thought that the pceguid would be initialize, right?

A: Are you forgetting to pass volume GUID?

Host: Yadhu (Microsoft)
Q: I CeCreateDatabaseEx2 I wrote nothing for the sort. Do you mean that I have to put wNumSortOrder = 0?

A: If you are not specifying any valid sort orders you set wNumSortOrder to 0

Host: Jay Loney (Microsoft)
Q: Couple things on 1394 support. Can debug output be accessed or added to CE to allow low level debugging of the ohci and 1394 bus drivers? Also, how do I get a home-grown driver into the catalog underneath the IEEE 1394 catalog entry?

A: You can add this yourself via KITL services. This is in help. To get this into PB, there's a VB script for this also defined in help. Getting into the catalog under Device Drivers, use the GUID and group for our entries. \program files\PB\4.20\cepb\cec for our samples

Host: DKelley (Microsoft)
Q: Is it true that you need a .rel file for your Dll to be loaded in Slot 1? And if so, what does the .rel file do?

A: Yes, you need a .rel file to load A DLL to slot 1. The .rel file has extra relocation information so we can split the .text section to place in slot 1 and the data in slot 0.

Host: Yadhu (Microsoft)
Q: Will I still see"virtual" loss of DLL space even if my process has lot of memory left ?

A: Since we have the ability to load DLL's (specifically system DLL's) into slot 1 instead of the process's vm space you should now have a lot more real vm space.

Host: ChipS (Microsoft)
Q: When will .NET Compact Framework be componentized?

A: No .NetCF folks here today either, but for now the .NetCF support is a single component. This is so that .NET programmers can know what to expect. What functionality split would you be interested in?

Host: Sergey (Microsoft)
Q: When will WCE .NET support the server provider side for Web Services .NET?

A: We have SOAP Toolkit support. You can implement server-side of web service with that.

Host: ChipS (Microsoft)
Q: Where can I find a list of what's new in 4.20 and when will it be available?

A: Try //www.microsoft.com/embedded. Look for events and then the Developer Conference presentations. There's an overview of 4.2 in the general session slides. Release is scheduled for 1H03.

Host: Jay Loney (Microsoft)
Q: with .Net is remote performance viewer available with PB or EVC ? Can I use this tool without making any image changes(even settings) like on off the shelf system ?

A: Yes, perfmon is still in 4.2 under remote tools. Use a debug build with KITL so CESH is working, but no other changes necessary. so off shelf will need debug support in image

Host: Joseph Lee (Microsoft)
Q: Where can I find some information on wireless gateways and being able to use handheld pda's?

A: You can sign up with the Beta program for Platform Builder to find out more

Host: Glenn Davis (Microsoft)
Q: Were can I find some information on wireless gateways and being able to use handheld pda's? I am looking for a wireless router that can do all this plus more

A: In general, there are no special gateway requirements for CE based devices. r example, you should be able to use any 802.11 AP that is supported by the NIC you have.

Host: ChipS (Microsoft)
Q: Is it normal for device manufacturers to install .NetCF on the device? Or can software developers do it? I have a pre-release CE.NET4.1 device without .NetCF and I get errors when I try to install the .NetCF (ARMv4 cab) supplied with VS.NET2003

A: Once we get to a full release (not pre-release) you will see more devices with .NET CF built in. Since I'm not a CF person, I don't know the answer to installing on existing devices. I suggest you ask that question in the newsgroups. I will poke the .NET CF folks to follow up with you there.

Moderator: Mike Fos (Microsoft)
Q: Using .NetCF is it possible to write fullscreen (i.e. no window title bar) apps using WinForms or is it necessary to use GDI+ or native APIs?

A: Drat, you should have been here yesterday for the NetCF chat! You might want to post your question on the Compact Framework newsgroup. microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework

Host: ChipS (Microsoft)
Q: The source code available through the Shared Source License is only part of the code. Is there something more comprehensive, something like an 'extended source agreement'?

A: Releasing source takes some work on our part. We are working on additional source with each release. The major intent of the source is to assist in bring-up of the device, most of the code needed for that is released as source now.

Host: Jay Loney (Microsoft)
Q: Does anyone know of a study to find out what consumes more power CE .NET or Linux? In a situation where just the OS's are running. On any common hardware.

A: We know of no such study. However, our new Power manager enhancements in CE .NET allow for the most configurable and extensible Power management model you can define.

Host: Jay Loney (Microsoft)
Q: Is their PerfMon API available (like for desktop with Platform SDK)? If yes, is it for both .NET and CE 3.0 ?

A: FWIK: there is no direct API to talk to perfmon. Use the GUI and capture info.

Host: Yadhu (Microsoft)
Q: Is there any NAND flash blocks arrangement requirement to support new file system architecture in WinCE.NET ? We are developing PPC 2003, and like to know how NAND flash file system is supported.

A: To use NAND flash along with our BINFS there is a recommended way to lay out flash blocks.If you are using our flash block driver there is also a specific way in how you have setup the spare sectors. For more information you should look at our bootpart code in \public\common\oak\drivers\ethdbg\bootpart

Moderator: Mike Fos (Microsoft)
Q: Can you explain how the networking features of NetCF compare to the full .NET framework?

A: Drat, you should have been here yesterday for the NetCF chat! You might want to post your question on the Compact Framework newsgroup. microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework

Host: Joseph Lee (Microsoft)
Q: Am I limited to 1 connection at a time? How do I communicate with other devices?

A: Are you talking about wireless in general or a particular technology?

A: Can you elaborate your question?

Host: Yadhu (Microsoft)
Q: I try the sort order and it's working. But now when I open the database I get the error 19 : error_write_protect. I'm writing to my compact flash (szFname = TEXT("Hard Disk\\Database") for the CeMountDBVol). Can I have the database to the .NetCF?

A: Filesystem itself doesn't specifically set ERROR_WRITE_PROTECT anywhere. It must be comming from the lower level block driver. It is a common scenario to mount a database on CF cards

Host: DKelley (Microsoft)
Q: I got the 120 days free evaluation software of Windows CE .net 4.0 with emulator, from a distributor. I just would like to know whether the emulated Ethernet really transmit the packet out. As I understood that the emulated Ethernet (DC211401) would use the workstation physical Ethernet hardware for both transmission and reception, I tried to capture the traffic on the physical interface where the ethereal(packet capture software) did not capture any traffic.

A: Yes, the packets should be transmitted/received through the host's NIC. It's not clear why you are having an issue with this.

Host: Jeff Glaum (Microsoft)
Q: If I VirtualAlloc a large size (over 2MB) is that memory accessible to all processes for CE 4.1? For CE 4.2?

A: Yes, but I wouldn't count on this behavior. You're better off using CreateFileMapping.

Moderator: Mike Fos (Microsoft)
Q: When using treeviews and listviews in MFC there is a feature called custom draw that seems to be missing under both .net framework and compact framework. How do I do ownerdraw functionality for treeview and listview controls??

A: Our Windows CE .NET experts aren't sure how to answer this one. You might want to post your question on the Compact Framework newsgroup: microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework

Host: Yadhu (Microsoft)
Q: yes to both versions (4.1 and 4.2)? I ask because I heard that such mappings are no longer global, but are process specific under 4.2....

A: For all version if you have size > 2M and MEM_RESERVE and PAGE_NOACCESS it will put it in upper 2Gigs and is visible from other process space

Moderator: Mike Fos (Microsoft)
Thanks for joining us today and thanks for the questions. It's time for us to go now.

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