Venturcom - Modularity and Windows XP Embedded

Posted July 9, 2003

Chat Date: June 19, 2003

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Chat Participants:

• Jon Fincher, Windows XP Embedded Strike Team
• Matt Edwards, Principal Engineer, Strategic (Consulting) Services Division, VenturCom, Inc.
• Daron Underwood - Principal Engineer/Consultant, VenturCom, Inc.
• Andy Allred, component integration testing

Moderator: Ken (Microsoft)
Welcome to today's MSDN Chat. Our topic is Venturcom - Modularity and Windows XP Embedded. Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome. And welcome to our hosts today.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Jon Fincher, Windows XP Embedded Strike Team

Host: Matt (VCI)
Matt Edwards, Principal Engineer, Strategic (Consulting) Services Division - VenturCom

Host: Daron (VCI)
Daron Underwood - Principal Engineer/Consultant, VenturCom, Inc.

Host: Andy (Microsoft)
Andy Allred, component integration testing

Moderator: Ken (Microsoft)
And I'm Ken McGrath, web and communities producer. Let's get started!

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Will any changes in the new version of WndowsPE help XPE designers?

A: No, because XPE doesn't use the full functionality of WinPE. It only uses WinPE to provide a CD bootable Win32 environment for running Target Analyzer and deploying runtimes.

Host: Daron (VCI)
Q: Where can one find out about tradeoffs/features with various shells?

A: The obvious difference between the different shells, is the functionality and the size of the components associated with those shells. The Explorer shell is roughly 15-20MB in size. A custom shell is fully under the control of the designer and as such the functionality and footprint can be controlled. I would suggest looking at the newsgroups and see what other developers are doing/seeing.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Where is the best place to start with regard to reducing the XPe footprint? Is there a white paper that discusses this topic?

A: While there isn't a whitepaper available on this topic, there is an MSDN article on reducing footprint and boot times. Look for the Get Embedded column on https://msdn.microsoft.com/columns.

Host: Andy (Microsoft)
Q: what am I missing if fba reports streamci.dll missing?

A: You need: Class Installer - Stream. SPY, did you componentize your own multimedia driver component?

Host: Andy (Microsoft)
Q: I boot winpe, tap, create hardware component, etc...

A: WinPE doesn't install mulitmedia devices, so they will be missing from your config after importing the PMQ.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: With Longhorn using a mix of an embedded style os image on cd, and kind of a frontended FBA setup, will the component/embedded part of windows be brought more to the forefront for more developers? Like OPK and Target Designer together

A: It's still very early in the development of Longhorn Embedded, so I can't confirm anything about what the tools will look and act like. That scenario, however, is on our minds as we move forward.

Host: Matt (VCI)
Q: Are licensed "XPe designers" eligible for some kind of a WinPE toolkit for bootable CD/DVD deployment?

A: The WinPE toolkit is available. Many large OEM’s are using it. WinPE is licensed separately and will not be supplied as part of Windows XP Embedded. You will have to acquire it separately.

Host: Daron (VCI)
Q: I've some gen port IO drivers under NTe for reading / writing to 8/16/32 bit ports. Will they work under XPe as-is?

A: If it is really a simple generic port driver, they should work. I would suggest the a re-compile however.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Is there anything I should know about EWF? During first tests, I enabled EWF on one partition, but ewfmgr reported EWF was enabled on multiple partitions. Has such behavior already been reported?

A: There have been two QFE's for EWF, and there is one more on it's way in the next couple of days. Make sure you have all the QFE's installed. If it is still a problem, you can report it to the newsgroup or to PSS.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Not sure this is on topic completely, but when is Framework 1.1 coming to Embedded?

A: We don't have a definite date for it yet, but it should be out before the end of the year.

Host: Daron (VCI)
Q: When is the .NET Framework going to be componentized rather than one monolithic component?

A: Nothing for sure yet, however the plan is to have the framework componentized by the 1.1 release. Also, there is effort being put into reducing the overall footprint.

Host: Matt (VCI)
Q: For a RAM based EWF, how much RAM is required to protect a 180MB partition?

A: Much of this will depend on the application and how much it uses the disk. 180MB is a small partition and the RAM cache will never be larger than 180MB.

Host: Matt (VCI)
Q: For a RAM based EWF, how much RAM is required to protect a 180MB partition?

A: The EWF will only require RAM for the number of sectors written. If the system does not write to the partition the RAM cache can be set to the minimum.

Host: Daron (VCI)
Q: What IS the minimum size EWF partition?

A: The minimum is zero if never written to. However on first write, the media block size is allocated.

Host: Matt (VCI)
Q: Thanks, Matt. What would happen if there's not enough RAM for EWF to use?

A: If the EWF runs out of RAM you will get write failures. It appears to the OS and applications like a full disk. The system will not survive long in this state. Your applications may fail if they require disk space and do not handle a full disk.

Host: Daron (VCI)
Q: I just attended the Windows XP Embedded Training course and the instructor said the minimum size was 32 MB. Was he mistaken?

A: EWF requires that a management partition be created on the physical media that has a minimum size of 32 KB. Perhaps this is what you are thinking. There is no minimum size imposed on the RAM overlay itself.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Is there any thought about putting a check into EWF to commit it's data before RAM is exhausted?

A: There is a QFE for EWF that implements an API through which you can control EWF. Part of that API includes an event that can fire when the overlay reaches a certain size - you can use the API and this event to do exactly what you're asking.

Host: Daron (VCI)
Q: 32 KB or MB?

A: 32 KB

Host: Matt (VCI)
Q: When using the -commit option to ewfmgr, does the commit occur right away or does it merely get queued up to be performed at shutdown/reboot?

A: For the RAM based EWF the commit takes place right away but the sectors still may exist in system RAM and will require a correct shutdown/reboot. It would be risky turn power off without a reboot, shutdown or dismount.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Will there be a SP2 to XPe? If so when?

A: Yes, and it should be out in the same timeframe as XP Pro SP2.

Moderator: Ken (Microsoft)
Thanks for joining us today and for all the great questions. It's time for us to go now.

For further information on this topic please visit the following:

Newsgroups: Mobile and embedded application development topics

Embedded Transcripts: Read the archive

Website: Visit the Mobile & Embedded Developer Center

Top of page