Windows XP Embedded

Posted August 19, 2004

Chat Date: July 6, 2004

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Welcome to today's Windows XP Embedded chat! Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Let’s introduce our hosts for today.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
My name is Brad Combs. I am a System Design Engineer for Imago Technologies, LLC. I work with XP Embedded on a consulting basis helping companies prepare their XP Embedded systems for deployment.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
And Slobodan, one of our cool XPE MVPs is joining us from Belgrade, where he focuses on Driver and firmware programmer most of the time.

Host: JohnVorchak (Microsoft)
John Vorchak, Windows Embedded consultant

Host: Lynda (Microsoft)
Lynda Allen (Microsoft)- Component Integration Tester

Host: Nandini (Microsoft)
Nandini Shenoy, Embedded Enabling Features

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Welcome everyone, let’s get started!

Start of Chat

Host: Lynda (Microsoft)
Q: When will XPe SP2 be released?
A: XPE SP2 will be available in the 3rd quarter of '04. We usually have a 30- 90 delta from the release date of XP Pro SP2.

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: I have successfully build an image with DirectX 9 and the latest Display adaptor for my Display adaptor, how ever i get very low frame rate when playing games on the XP embedded image compared to an XP pro on the same machine... what have I missed?
A: There is probability that you forgot to include valid GART driver for AGP. Make sure that it is installed.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: Can I move any ansi codes dynamic library from XPe to reduce the size of image, such as msvcrt.dll?
A: I'm assuming that you mean remove. You can add and remove components from an XP Embedded image as you see fit. As long as the functionality of your system remains intact you can leave out any unnecessary components. XP Embedded images range from very small kernel only images at 8MB to very large XP Pro *like images at 150MB+. If this is not what you meant please let me know.

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: What is a GART and what would the component name of such a thing be?
A: Depending on your chipset you will probably need to componentize chipset drivers yourself. This particular driver is used for gaining full speed of AGP bus if your card is AGP based.

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: So a GART is a motherboard chipset thing rather then a Display adaptor (ATI RADEON) thing
A: Yes for intel chipsets filter components in TD for component that contain MS agp440.sys driver. This is just to give you idea about what it is. You need to have it in order to take advantage of all accelerations and functions of graphic card.

Host: Lynda (Microsoft)
Q: Currently, we cannot activate ICF in a fully unattended manner on our 2,500 kiosks. Will SP2 enhancements to ICF allow fully unattended activation?
A: Yes. You will be able to configure Firewall settings in Target designer during build time, or be able to change and configure some settings through netsh post-FBA.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: My problem is that XP Embedded units in the field do not have ICF activated today.
A: Do you have DUA or any third party update utilities included in your image?

Host: Lynda (Microsoft)
Q: Can you please give a quick outline on the key features of SP2
A: Key features include security enhancements in the form of RPC changes, Windows Firewall being far more configurable & some EWF enhancements.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: Yes, we have a software distribution solution, with our own fully unattended (msiexec) installs.tourt
A: ICF is mostly controlled through registry entries. So long as you included the ICF component in your runtime image you should be able to toggle features on and off via registry entries.

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: Would I be able to see this Chipset driver in device manager on the hardware (running XP Pro)
A: Yes go to "System Devices" category and look for processor to AGP controller or somethign similar depending on chipset you have. If you want more precise answer please let us know about chipset that you use.

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: Im using an IBM Thinkpad T41 right now, but the final will differ A LOT
A: I can't tell you what chipset architecture is used on this device. Only suggestion for you is to try to componentize all drivers for your chipset and to make sure that they are installed correctly.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: As we know, the XPe will do the DUA processing background. But, If the image's EWF is enabled and the partition is protected, will the DUA be failed?
A: There are two ways to do this. 1) Disable the filter, reboot, make changes, enable the fitler, reboot. 2) Make changes, commit the filter, reboot. All changes are made during a shutdown so it's important to ensure that a proper reboot happens afterward

Host: Nandini (Microsoft)
Q: I have a page file enabled on a second partition (D . Our image boots off the 1st partition (C:, EWF protected). I noticed that when analyzing virtual memory usage in windbg, it indicates that there is a page file on both the C: and D: drives. Why?
A: I am not sure why you are seeing pagefiles on both C and D partitions. But it is recommended that you disable pagefile when EWF is enabled.

Host: JohnVorchak (Microsoft)
Q: Is the .Net Framework ever going to be componentized in to smaller parts. For example, if I know that I will not be using an ODBC connection to a database, can I have the option of leaving it out?
A: As far as I am aware the official Microsoft answer is not right now, however I am aware of some efforts towards making the Compact Framework work on XPE

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: The page file is our writable partition, not the EWF protected one. Is this still bad practice?
A: No, it is how it is supposed to be used if you need extra memory. There is a tip by Andy Allred on this subject.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: Can I write down some DUA script to disable EWF automatically during the DUA processing, As I want to do the DUA update automatically just after the XPe startup?
A: Yes, you can script DUA to disable the filter. There is also a handy tool located at https://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archive/2004/05/18/134289.aspx that will assist in creating DUA scripts. Practice using this tool on demo devices. DUA can be a very valuable and powerful tool!

Host: JohnVorchak (Microsoft)
Q: how do I upgrade a Windows CE PC with XP Embedded
A: There is no clear upgrade between the two operating systems as they are both specifically built for their devices by OEMs

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: Will there be a downloadable log of this chat session?
A: Yes...it'll be at https://msdn.microsoft.com/chats/recent.asp in a few days.

Host: JohnVorchak (Microsoft)
Q: I have Jornada PocketPC with CE 3.0 and a PocketPC 2003. How do I develop applications which work on both?
A: You should be able to write applications that work with both operating systems as native code for CE3.x however for the best answer I would suggest looking at the Windows CE newsgroups

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
A: You can check out https://msdn2.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/default.aspx for more information.

Host: Lynda (Microsoft)
Q: If ICF was not built into a deployed image, is it possible to roll ICF into the system and any known issues with doing this?
A: This is not recommended. It might be possible to add the binaries and reg keys post-FBA, but you would very likely have missing dependencies that might cause unexpected behavior. Definitely thoroughly test any changes you make on your image.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: It will be reduce the security if the DUA script can disable the EWF, wont it?
A: For the time that EWF is disabled the system is susceptible to writes, correct. Make sure that the filter is enabled again after the updates have been applied. You can also follow Slobodan's article on Registry based RAM EWF. This way simple registry entries will turn the filter on and off. This will also remove the need for the small EWF partition.

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: Any other components that would be needed for optimal DirectX 9 Performance? other then DirectX9, Display Adaptor drivers, and the GART (processor to AGP Controller) Driver?
A: The most important thing is to use new drivers for your video adapter. So you will have to componentize them correctly by your self. No other drivers or compoenent should be required.

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: Is there an easy upgrade path to add EWF to an existing XP Embedded image (*.slx)? Easier after SP2? At all possible for existing deployed devices?
A: Registry configured RAM EWF can be installed manually trough registry entries with little effort. Start by making reg configured EWF on your development device, and then transfer registry entries that are needed and ewf.sys file.

Host: Lynda (Microsoft)
Q: Which component would I need to add to access Device Manager from my XPe Build?
A: There is a Device Manager component. You might also want to add the System Control panel and check Context menus in the User Interface Core.
Q: Please send me link for [MSDE] for pocket pc

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
A: There is no MSDE for PocketPC that I'm aware of. You can use CEDB or SQL for CE. CEDB is inherent to the device. More information on SQL for CE can be found at https://www.microsoft.com/sql

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: Is an EWF protected, FAT32 partition safe from file corruption caused by power failure? If not, are there any steps I should take to prevent/correct file corruption on a FAT32 partition(chkdsk maybe)?
A: EWF works on FAT32 and NTFS. It's a sector based filter so it's independent of the file system. It's not recommended to defrag / chkdsk a system while the filter is active.

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
A: It is protected from software failure. But if hardware failure occurs it can't help you. You should use flash based disk devices. You must not use chkdsk and similar tools on protected partitions.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: How do I transfer an Access file to PocketPC 2003 and what software to use for reading these files?
A: ActiveSync will transfer it. Some devices have database reading software in ROM or you can create your own or download a third-party utility.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: But how do i view them because there is no pocket access?
A: Some devices have database reading software in ROM or you can program your own or download a third-party utility.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: Is there some guide to how to write the upgrade app for XPe?
A: Search Google for DUA and Device Update Agent. There is also a link to the "DUA Script Generator" that I posted earlier.

Host: JohnVorchak (Microsoft)
Q: With SP2 do you think the OS size will remain consistent with SP1.
A: From what I have seen in the Beta images to date, the images should remain approximately the same size, perhaps a small amount larger.]

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
Q: How would you create a minimal footprint build? (in general terms)?
A: By disabling auto resolve dependencies. And adding components on per need basis only. And you should tweek some components from TD to remove resources that you will not need like files, reg entries etc. This is if you are after some 5-8 MB image. For more options available. You would not use TAP for image creation but only for consulting purposes. You should add only components that are absolutely necessary for your program/shell to work.

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: From a licensing point of view is are there any issues with installing MSDE as part of the XPE image ?
A: At this point and time MSDE is not supported from a licensing standpoint. Sorry.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: Where can I find VB runtime for my PocketPC?
A: eVB is a part of the eMbedded Visual Tools download https://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=f663bf48-31ee-4cbe-aac5-0affd5fb27dd\&displaylang=en

Host: Brad_Combs (Microsoft)
Q: So I'm not allowed to put MSDE on a XPE image (from a legal PoV) ?
A: At this point no. Contact your distributor for more information. Sorry.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Q: Can I use terminal server via bluetooth on a PocketPC 2003 to connect to win XP Pro?
A: I think so....I haven't honestly tried it via Bluetooth, though.

Host: JohnVorchak (Microsoft)
Q: How does the performance of windows XP compare to the embedded version? are we only talking Memory or could you give some directions to why XPe is faster (General terms)
A: XP Embedded can be faster when compared on the same platform since it does utilize less memory and other system resources however typically XP Embedded is used on systems which are not as fast or efficient as XP Professional, so the biggest benefit is

Host: sbrcin (Microsoft)
A: It should not be either faster or slower since it uses same drivers and services. But if you use few drivers and services compared to myriads present in XP Prof. It is logical to assume that it will work better and faster.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Thanks for joining us today and thanks for the questions. It's time for us to officially end now, but some folks will be hanging out for a few minutes.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
If you have further questions regarding the Compact Framework, please check out the newsgroup!

For further information on this topic please visit the following:

Newsgroups: Mobile and embedded application development topics

Embedded Transcripts: Read the archive

Website: Visit the Mobile & Embedded Developer Center

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