MVP-hosted .NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming Features of VS.NET
Posted August 15, 2003
Chat Date: July 22, 2003
Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity
Chat Participants:
- Chris Tacke, Windows CE Product Manager at Applied Data Systems and a member of the OpenNETCF.org Advisory Board
- Alex Yakhnin, Program Manager at IntelliProg and a member of the OpenNETCF.org Advisory Board
- Derek Mitchell, Owner of https://www.devbuzz.com
- Neil Cowburn, Technologist with Content Master and a member of the OpenNETCF.org Advisory Board
- Peter Foot, Founder of In The Hand and a member of the OpenNETCF.org Advisory Board
- Ginny Caughey, President of Carolina Software and a member of the OpenNETCF.org Advisory Board
- Zoran Galovic, Embedded MVP
- Alex Feinman, Senior Engineer with Corrigo Inc. and a member of the OpenNETCF.org Advisory Board
- Michael Fosmire, Community Program Manager/MVP Lead at Microsoft Product Support Services
Moderator: Mike (Microsoft)
Welcome to today's MVP-hosted .NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming features of VS.NET chat! Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome. Let’s introduce our hosts for today.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Hello, I'm Chris Tacke. I'm the Windows CE Product Manager at Applied Data Systems. I'm also an Advisory Board Member with OpenNETCF.org.
Host: Alex Yakhnin (MVP)
Hi, my name is Alex Yakhnin. I am a Program Manager at IntelliProg and a member of Advisory Board at OpenNETCF.org.
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Derek Mitchell - I run https://www.devbuzz.com - crazy about .NET Compact Framework
Host: Neil Cowburn (MVP)
Hi, my name is Neil Cowburn. I'm a technologist with Content Master. I'm also a member of Advisory Board at OpenNETCF.org , so go visit our web site!
Host: Peter Foot (MVP)
Hi, I'm Peter Foot founder of In The Hand and a member of Advisory Board at OpenNETCF.org.
Host: Ginny Caughey (MVP)
Hi, I'm Ginny Caughey. I'm president of a company that provides apps to the solid waste industry.
Host: Zoran Galovic (MVP)
Hello everybody! I am Zoran Galovic, Embedded MVP. I am responsible for DotNetEmbedded Solutions which have specialized in WCE .NET, .NET Compact Framework and offers solutions in conjunction with .NET, .NET Web Services, ASP.NET, ADO.NET. I have had spe
Host: Alex Feinman (MVP)
Hi, I'm Alex Feinman, Senior Engineer with Corrigo Inc. I am also on advisory board of the OpenNETCF
Moderator: Mike (Microsoft)
Welcome everyone, let’s get started!
Host: Neil Cowburn (MVP)
Q: My question is about Smartphone v.Next. Will the Compact Framework be available in full, or will it be a subset of the available functionality?
A: It will be the full .NET Compact Framework. The only difference will be the user controls that you can use in your Windows Forms applications
Host: Alex Yakhnin (MVP)
Q: Are you aware of any way to add tooltips to toolbars?
A: The only way roght is to create a custom toolbar control from the scratch.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: Where can we find details about what has been included in CF SP1?
A: SP1 has not added any new content to the CF.
Host: Ginny Caughey (MVP)
Q: Do all of you work for Microsoft?
A: No, Just the ones with MS after their names.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: XML stuff - are there differences between SP1 and Win Mobile 2003 (code-wise, other than RAM vs ROM)?
A: Windows Mobile 2003 was released before SP1, so it has the original version of the CF.
Host: Neil Cowburn (MVP)
Q: The performance in PPC 2003 and CF.NET with loading Datasets was very poor. How is the performance in WindowsMobile 2003?
Host: Neil Cowburn (MVP)
A: PPC 2003 is Windows Mobile 2003. Assuming you mean Pocket PC 2002, overall application performance is greatly improved.
Host: Alex Feinman (MVP)
Q: Will there be any WSE libraries for .NET CF?
A: That will be up to Microsoft. Given the state of the thing I'd say we can eventually expect support for WS-E in all versions of the framework including CF Casey Chesnut has done some work calling WS-E web services using current version of CF. Unfortunately his site seems to be down (https://www.brains-n-brawn.com)
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Q: What kind of performance improvements should we expect to see between PPC 2002 and Mobile 2003 running CF apps?
A: There are quite few improvements. Overall form load time and screen painting is dramatically improved.
Host: Ginny Caughey (MVP)
Q: Does SP1 get pushed to the Emulator the next time I load my apps?
A: SP1 is not available for x86 so the answer is no.
Host: Peter Foot (MVP)
Q: Loading a Dataset in the VS.NET 2003 PPC Emulator is very fast !!! Can we expect the same performance on a real device (like IPAQ 5550 with WindowsMobile 2003)?
A: Generally performance is much better on a real device than an emulator
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: I meant "short time" in my question about the display difference for time between the emulator and device.
A: I *believe* (meaning you need to test this) that the format is dependent on the device's regional settings. The examples you give are 24 v. 12-hour clock settings.
Host: Neil Cowburn (MVP)
Q: Is there any way to integrate Pocket PC 2003 emulator image to Visual Studio without jiggery-pokery with XMLs and XSLs?
A: Yes, install the Pocket PC 2003 SDK
Host: Alex Feinman (MVP)
Q: So the real device will load a Dataset from an XML-file even FASTER than on the VS.NET 2003 PPC2003emulator???
A: As a rule of thumb - the real device is always faster than the emulator
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: Can we expect to see the CF available in SPOT devices, and will Visual Studio support development?
A: Microsoft hasn't announced anything for SPOT, though based on their push toward the .NET framework on all platforms, it's probably safe to say "yes" to both.
Moderator: Mike (Microsoft)
Q: Will be there any support for MS Mobility user groups (broadcasting hot news, etc.)?
A: I'm not sure we understand the question. Can you clarify? I think of User Groups as a live gathering of technology-specific enthusiasts.....
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: How do we get SP1 included in our cab files for installation? Is it a separate cab?
A: Like the standard framework, you only have the install CABs. To include them in your own CAB, extract the files from the existing CAB, modify your INF file and rebuild your package.
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Q: There seem to be a lot of problems with threading and using Controls. Is there a white paper with a thorough description workarounds?
A: No whitepaper - if you're talking about updating the UI from a spawned thread - no can do. You can work around it - see this MSDN vid - use the same mechanism used for the desktop - changing UI from pooled threads. https://msdn.microsoft.com/msdntv/episode.aspx?xml=episodes/en/20030411WinFormsMB/manifest.xml
Host: Alex Yakhnin (MVP)
Q: How about the "beep" command in CF.NET. It still does not work!!??
A: No, you still have to P/Invoke PlaySound API
Host: Peter Foot (MVP)
Q: Is there any ready-to-use libraries for integration with ActiveSync?
A: Not directly into Activesync but check out the OpenNETCF Communication library for RAPI functionality (https://opennetcf.com/)
Host: Ginny Caughey (MVP)
Q: That said, does anyone know of a more efficient way of creating SQLCE database other an using XML and Datasets?
A: These guys have a product that creates SQL CE databases on the desktop: https://www.hob.dk/
Host: Alex Yakhnin (MVP)
Q: Will it be possible to write to Today screen with the compact framework, and when
A: It is currently not possible to do with CF, but we all hope that it will be supported in the v.next of CF.
Host: Neil Cowburn (MVP)
Q: Do you have to have eVC4 to use PocketPC 2003 SDK?
A: No. Installing the SDK without eVC4 works just fine, and will still integrate into VS .NET
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Q: That being said, does anyone know of a more (time) efficient of creating/populating a SQLCE database than by using XML and Datasets?
A: Depends on how large the XML is - whether you use are loading the entire DOM or parsing it using the xml reader. If you use a web service definitely pass the XML doc and forgo the dataset - performance on the dataset parsing is slow.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: Using .NET CF SP1, in our app. a simple Window.Forms.Button doesn't appear (Visible is false). Why?
A: I've not seen that behavior. Maybe post the question to the newsgroups and see if anyone else in the community has.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: Will there be any improvements regarding mobile development in Whidbey?
A: Since it is the next set of tools, it will definitely have improvements. Now what those improvements are Microsoft has not yet publicly announced.
Host: Alex Feinman (MVP)
Q: How to play a video clip from a .NET app? Can I play .wmv file?
A: You can "launch" the file using ShellExecute. https://opennetcf.com/
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: Any workarounds for the font mapping problem? The fonts on device (PPC2002, SP1) are smaller than those in VS
A: Yes, SP1 addresses this issue.
Host: Peter Foot (MVP)
Q: When installing PPC2003 I get the following error - Internal error 2229, InstallExecuteSequence, Select 'Action', null,.... - anyone have any clue on how to fix this error?
A: Make sure that you install using an administrator account and disable any background virus checker
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Q: I seem to remember a demo "SMS-Chat" sample app that was going to be available in .NET CF. Any idea where I can find it?
A: Could it be: Developing SMS Enabled Line-of-Business Applications https://msdn2.microsoft.com/library/ms839381.aspx
Host: Peter Foot (MVP)
Q: Using the netcfsetup.msi installer (original, not SP1), it won't recognize my device "No MS .NET CF found for your device.", but I use Visual Studio with it. PPC 3.0.12039, Build 11178
A: There was a known issue with the XDA and similar devices. You can manually install the ARM version of the cab to the device. This should be fixed in the SP1 package.
Host: Ginny Caughey (MVP)
Q: Will be there any way in future releases of SQLCE to sync without use of IIS?
A: Features for the next version of SQL CE have not been announced yet. Sorry.
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Q: This may be an IIS question. Anyhow, I modeled my app on the NorthWindCE example. The first time I sync the database or initialize it I get an error. If I first open IE and navigate to the VD containing sscesa20.dll sync works. How come?
A: What is the error? Most likely the sscesa20.dll is set up correctly but the snapshot has not been run or doesn't have the correct permissions.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: Have you seen any performance difference between C# and VB.Net on the device?
A: In theory C# and VB.NET should compile to the same IL and therefore be identical. In reality the IL is sometimes slightly different, but I've not seen anything that made any noticeable perf difference.
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Q: The error when first trying to sync is that the action requires SSL. The snapshot is there.
A: Have you testd the https URL with sscesa20.dll? If that works and the snapshot is there then check the permissions by temporarily assigning admin rights to the web user then the snapshot folder - once you know which is the culprit work back. 99% sure it will be permissions. Double check the snapshot has execed.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: Is it possible to write to the WM2003 (PocketPC) titlebar in .NET CF?
A: Not directly. Of course you could always get the hWnd for the window and then P/Invoke, but even then it won't be simple.
Host: Alex Feinman (MVP)
Q: I have a Dell Axim device that works fine with active sync but when trying to debug a simple app it can’t find the device. I am using the USB cable provided with the device
A: Do you have a network card in your development machine?
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: How can I make emulator or real device run a given application programmatically and get notification when it's finished (e.g. for writing an automatic unit testing engine)?
A: Do you mean run an external app and wait for its completion? If so using CreateProcess and WaitForSingleObject would work well. See www.opennetcf.org/winapi.asp
Host: Alex Yakhnin (MVP)
Q: Are there any 3rd party RAS namespaces?
A: We at IntelliProg just recently released the RAS component for CF: https://www.intelliprog.com/netcf/ras.html
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: Why is drawing text so slow? I made a custom table control and it takes a long time to call DrawString() 40 times.
A: Sounds like you're drawing right to the screen. Try drawing to an off-screen bitmap and when you're done with all of your DrawString calls, use DrawImage to move the bitmap to the screen.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: I meant make it run from host machine with device connected or emulator running
A: To remotely run an application you can use RAPI. In this case CeCreateProcess would do exactly what you're after. See www.opennetcf.org/communication.asp for a wrapper class
Moderator: Mike (Microsoft)
Q: Will there be a VS.Net 2003 update (or are there instructions for manual update) that updates the CF images that are downloaded to the service pack release?
A: There have been no public statements on this. I'll pass your comments along to the product group, though.
Host: Chris Tackle (MVP)
Q: When running an app on the emulator where are the files stored? e.g. if you app creates a sdf file. I have searched the computer for these files but turn up nothing. Are they in RAM? On the device I can find the files through ActiveSync explorer.
A: The emulator uses an actual device image file, so all of its filesystem and RAM contents are in a single file. To view the files from the PC use something like Remote File Viewer.
Host: Alex Feinman (MVP)
Q: Are web service calls a lot faster in SP1? A single one takes 5 sec. now
A: Yes, the time of the first call to a web service was improved in SP1
A: Yes, SP1 is much better (2-3x), though the first call is still slower than subsequent calls.
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Q: Are there any articles/whitepapers etc. on building "bulletproof" Sql Server 2000/Sql CE apps using replication that 'auto correct' from the common failure modes (i.e. programmatically, without administrative support)?
A: There are a few must reads - drop me an email and I'll send you a list. SS CE replication has a number of fail safes built in though so if the synch doesn't complete you will OK if you've set up the replication correctly.
Moderator: Mike (Microsoft)
Thanks for joining us today and thanks for the questions. A special **thank you** to all of our hosts today; Alex F, Chris, Alex Y, Peter, Ginny, Neil, Zoran and Derek. It's time for us to go now.
Moderator: Mike (Microsoft)
If you have further questions regarding the Compact Framework, please check out:
Or you can check out https://www.opennetcf.org!!
Host: Derek Mitchell (MVP)
Or https://forums.devbuzz.com
For further information on this topic please visit the following:
Newsgroups: Mobile and embedded application development topics
Embedded Transcripts: Read the archive
Website: Visit the Mobile & Embedded Developer Center
.gif)
Top of page