MVP-hosted .NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming Features of VS.NET
Posted December 24, 2003
Chat Date: December 11, 2003
Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity
Introduction
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Welcome to today's MVP-hosted .NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming features of VS.NET chat! Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Let’s introduce our hosts for today.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
I'm Chris Tacke, CE Product Manager at Applied Data Systems and Co-Founder of OpenNETCF.org
Host: Zoran (eMVP)
Good morning everybody! My name is Zoran Galovic. I am founder of DotNetEmbedded Solutions which specialized in .NET Compact Framework, WCE .NET, related Smartphones and PocketPCs.
Host: TimWilson (MVP)
Hi all, my name is Tim Wilson and I'm a consultant focusing on writing .Net-related applications for both the desktop and devices.
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
My name is Alex Feinman. I'm a senior software developer at Corrigo Inc in Redwood City, CA and a co-founder of OpenNETCF.org
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Hi, I'm Ginny Caughey. I'm President of Carolina Software, Inc. specializing in vertical market apps for the solid waste industry.
Host: JimWilson (MVP)
Jim Wilson: I am author of the DevelopMentor Mobile Computing curriculum and an independent software consultant (https://www.jwhedgehog.com) with a focus on Mobile Devices and the Compact Framework.
Host: PeterFoot (MVP)
Hi, I'm Peter Foot, I run the UK based company In The Hand producing software for mobile devices. I'm also a Senior Advisor at OpenNETCF.org.
Host: despen (Microsoft)
Hello, I'm a Microsoft technical writer responsible for smart device Help topics in Visual Studio.
Host: jabraham (Microsoft)
Hi, I'm Jeff Abraham and I'm a developer on the Visual Studio for Devices Team, working on the Device C++ Project System for the next release of VS.
Host: CraigNeable (Microsoft)
Hi, I'm Craig Neable. I'm a Program Manager on the .NET Smart Devices team. I'm here to learn as much as I can from our MVP sages.
Host: Jared_Miniman (MVP)
Hey all! I'm a proud member of the Mobile Devices MVP team. I started off doing application work for the HP iPAQ team, but have since begun working as a mobile analyst with Accenture in their New Jersey Innovation Center
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Welcome everyone, let’s get started!
Start of Chat
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Q: How can I make a fullscreen app for a CE.Net 4.1 device.
A: Here's a link to the FAQ article on full screen forms: https://msdn2.microsoft.com/netframework/aa497275.aspx
And here's a link to a discussion concerning "kiosk" mode apps:
https://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=kiosk+group%3A*.compactframework
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Steve Milroy stated in a webcast that smartphone 2002 does not support the .net cf can you please clarify?
A: That is correct. Smartphone 2002 does not support the CF. SmartPhone *2003* does.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: So what do you guys have planned next for OpennetCf.org? What types of things are you working on?
A: The SDF beta bits should be going out in the next day or so, and that has a *lot* of new stuff. Beyond that I'm working on a Pocket Excel wrapper, but I'm not sure what others are doing.
Host: CraigNeable (Microsoft)
Q: Hello?
A: Hi, welcome to the chat!
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Can you guys share what the plan for eVB support on Wince 4.x device is? No deployment, but the runtime is supported...is that right?
A: eVB is not supported on CE 4.x *except* for the PPC 2003
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
Q: How do I use database with Compact Framework Application
A: Take a look at the upcoming Paul Yao/David Durant book on CF programming. It is currently available for preview at https://www.paulyao.com/cfbook/index.asp
Host: CraigNeable (Microsoft)
Q: Is there a target date for the release of Smartphone 2003? And will current units be able to upgrade their ROM similar to PocketPC devices?
A: We have already released Windows Mobile 2003 for Smartphone to device manufacturers and Mobile Network Operators. There are currently models available from Orange in the UK, and an operator in China, and we are working with operators in many different markets to roll these phones out (including US Operators).
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: I need help about saving a text file in embedded visual basic
A: If you mean eVB 3.0, take a look at the File object. For VB.NET, look at the System.IO namespace. There are *lots* of samples on the web.
Host: ReedRobison (Microsoft)
Q: Where can I get information about adding database functionality to a program for PocketPC 2002/03
A: The .NET Compact Framework Core Reference has quite a bit of information on using ADO.NET under CF with sample sin both VB and C#. Also, check out the SQLCE sample apps for IBUYSPY.
Host: JimWilson (MVP)
Q: Can someone tell me about CF in VC? Is that possible, or is it like ASP.NET, and just not accessible via that language?
A: Managed C++ is not available for CF. Currently CF is limited to VB.NET and C# and probably will be for the foreseeable future
Host: JimWilson (MVP)
Q: Re VC: Thanks, Jim. Is that a compiler issue, or is it just a linguistic capability?
A: It’s actually a runtime issue. The runtime does not support the instruction set to support the multi-mode capabilites of managed C++. MC++ ability to be both managed and unmanaged at the same time makes its support prohibitive. If MC++ was supported currently, it would be in managed mode only and that's not generally very useful
Host: NeilC (MVP)
Silly question --- Q: What festive features would the people like to see in the .NET Compact Framework Christmas stockings?
Guest_Dante says:
Save an image would be nice
Guest_viliescu says:
Yes, saving an image
Guest_RayF says:
All I want for Christmas is an easily-installed standalone emulator for use in customer previews.
Guest_RayF says:
…and saving an image would be nice, too!
Host: Zoran (eMVP)
Q: Direction of .NetCF in regards to upcoming longhorn? What is the relation if any?
A: We can relay .NET CF support with upcoming Visual Studio .NET Whidbey. The .NET CF support will be integrated into it.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Hello. For those just joining the chat - Our topic is “.NET Compact Framework and the Smart Device Programming features of VS.NET” chat. Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome.
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
Q: I have developed a multiplayer game, the multiplayer part is implemented using wS, but they are client-server. A message-based will be more suitable. What should I do: wait for WSE 2.0 on CF or dump web services and implement my own protocol over TCP?
A: I would suggest implementing TCP/IP based protocol for performance reasons
Host: JimWilson (MVP)
Q: RE Whidbey; .NetCF is currently version 1.### while .net is at 1.1 Are there plans for an upgrade to .NetCF and will it be backwards compatible with code for the original?
A: There will be a new version of CF with Whidbey which will be updated... One cannot guarantee that code compiled for the new version will be backward compatible as there will likely be new features that the platform won't support.
Host: JimWilson (MVP)
Q: but compiled for .net cf 1.## will run under whidbey .net cf?
A: Yes
Host: PaulYao (MVP)
Q: the ability to tap and enable to SIP
A: If you create a form without (a) a MainMenu or a (b) ToolBar, then the SIP does not appear. Is that what you are asking about?
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Will tab order be supported under PPC in Whidbey?
A: Yes.
Host: CraigNeable (Microsoft)
Q: Are there any plans for WSE 2.0 or NET CF?
A: We know that the next generation of Web services is important on devices, and devices will play well with them. However, we have not at this point announced any specific implementation plans.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Will double click and tap-and-hold events be provided in Whidbey?
A: There have been no announcements of them, so at this point you know as much as we do.
Host: JimWilson (MVP)
Q: Is there anything that can be done to enable tab order in the current version of the CE framework?
A: It's not pretty but you can handle the KeyPress event and check the character to see if it’s a tab. If it is, advance focus to the next control in order.
Host: JimWilson (MVP)
A: I have an app that does it. Email me at jimw@jwhedgehog.com.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: I need to play mp3s or wmas. Any help in sight?
A: Currently, P/Invoking Media Player is about the only option.
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Q: working with large datasets - are there any virtual lists/comboboxes on .Net CF
A: No.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: thanks for the answer on Kiosk mode. I have got it to work on PocketPC using aygshell.dll but this doesnt seem to work on CE.NET 4.1 or will the implementation of aygshell be different on CE.net
A: CE 4.1 doesn't have aygshell.dll. It's an option for OEMs with 4.2, but isn't guaranteed to be there on anything but a PPC. You can always do a FindWindow to get the taskbar and then hide it.
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Q: Any suggestions for improving speed on filling lists on form load?
A: See this article for good tips: https://msdn2.microsoft.com/netframework/aa497275.aspx
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Is there, or will there be, a way to prevent a listview from automatically checking a check box if you click anywhere on the row when you have the CheckBoxes property set to true.
A: Is there? No. Will there? I hope so!
Host: PaulYao (MVP)
Q: I overheard somewhere that there is a limit to a number of forms that an app can have? Was I dreaming when I heard that, and is there a limit to a number of panels that a form can have, or is this based on memory of the device?
A: No actual number of limit on forms, panels, or other types of controls. Only real limit is device memory. Another limit is the max size for IL code for method. Max size is 64K, and if the InitializeComponent method becomes that large things stop working for the JITTED code (not the IL code)...
Host: TimWilson (MVP)
Q: I overheard somewhere that there is a limit to a number of forms that an app can have? Was I dreaming when I heard that, and is there a limit to a number of panels that a form can have, or is this based on memory of the device?
A:https://msdn2.microsoft.com/netframework/aa497275.aspx
Host: Jared_Miniman (MVP)
Q: What is the status of SP2? Is it still the end of the year?
A: We've been told by Microsoft that we should expect release rather soon....no specific date. The beta test program has been ongoing for awhile to ensure highest backwards compatibility.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Is there a way to include the .net CF SP2 into platform builder
A: There is a QFE for 4.2. For SP1 here is not one for 4.1 so you have to modify the bib and reg files manually. For the upcoming SP2 there will be SPs for both.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: How do I get the QFE for 4.2 that includes SP2?
A: SP2 hasn't been released yet. When it does, the QFE will come out just like other QFEs - they'll be web-downloadable and you'll get a notification in PB.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: I'm using the SP2 that was released and then recalled, so there is no QFE for it?
A: Not for the recalled one, no.
Host: NeilC (MVP)
Q: Are there any books for developing games for the PocketPC
A: There are no specific books that I know of, but .NET Game Programming with DirectX 9.0 (by Apress) has a chapter or two on the subject.
Host: Maarten (MVP)
Q: Are there any books for developing games for the PocketPC
A: Have you seen this article on MSDN? https://msdn2.microsoft.com/library/aa446533.aspx
Host: PaulYao (MVP)
Q: So if I usually write apps in C++ I should use C# to write apps for the PPC
A: If you have a background in C++, you are probably going to find the syntax of C# to be very familiar and easier to pick up than a new language (say VB.NET). There are a few extra features, though, like the ForEach statement that has no equivalent in C++. Also the finalizer syntax in C# looks a lot like the destructor syntax in C++ (the ~), so you have to be careful to understand how that works to get the results that you expect.
Host: CraigNeable (Microsoft)
Q: What improvements will there be to the emulator in Whidbey? Will there be an emulator for PPC 2002 and PPC 2003? And will there be speed improvements to the emulator? I find the emulator is usually 3x or more slower than a PDA.
A: We are planning several enhancements for the emulator in Whidbey including support for ActiveSync, support for up to 4 COM ports, saving emulator states, and yes, performance improvements. Incidentally, we already ship multiple emulator images - ones for Windows CE .NET, Pocket PC 2002, as well as for Windows Mobile 2003 (both Smartphone AND Pocket PC). For the latter two, you need to download and install the Windows Mobile 2003 SDKs from www.microsoft.com/mobile as these SDKs shipped AFTER Visual Studio .NET 2003.
Host: PaulYao (MVP)
Q: Are there any articles on writing a simple C# program for the PPC in the MSDN Library, Because I went and bought Teach yourself Visual Basic.Net in 21 days and coding in Visual Basic seems fairly easier
A: Visual Basic .NET is fully the equal of the C# language, and so if you find that you like using it, then you should go ahead and do so. There is at present just one thing that you cannot do in Compact Framework with VB .NET (that I have found, anyway) and that is providing design-time support for custom controls. Otherwise, I have found VB.NET to be a really great language to work in. So - the good news is that you get to pick whatever language you think works best for you.
Host: PaulYao (MVP)
Q: Still reading it, going over the examples, it seems easy, although I'm wondering if I development a windows app how much functionality will it have on my PPC
A: Are you doing development for .NET Framework (on the desktop) with VB.NET, or in the Compact Framework. If you are doing development for the .NET Framework, you are going to find that support on the Compact Framework is a subset of what you have on the desktop. I prefer to think of it as the "Greatest Hits of the .NET Framework" -- so if you are planning to work on the Pocket PC, you should get a book that deals with PocketPC programming with Compact Framework. I am just finishing a book on that subject -- you can download the chapters for free from my website. Visit https://www.paulyao.com/cfbook for details.
Host: AlexFeinman (MVP)
Q: IS windows mobile 2003 for pocket pc cell phones available to OEM's? T-mobile is very slow in providing information on this?
A: It was definitely provided to OEMs. In fact I've seen bootleg copies of T-Mobile 2003 ROM around the internet. I think they will release an update sometime in Q1
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Will there be clipboard support in the next version (or, preferably, SP2)?
A: Not in SP2, as for v 2, I've not heard, so I don't know. OpenNETCF does have an implementation though. I think it's in the Forms lib
Host: Ginny (MVP)
Q: Will there be a hotlink control in SP2 or Whidbey?
A: There is a LinkLabel control here: https://opennetcf.com/
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: This is probably slightly off-topic, but where can I find detailed documentation of how and when WinCE will decide to unload an application in the background? And are there any special considerations for .NET CE products?
A: This is actually a Pocket PC memory-manager feature, so it doesn't exist in vanilla CE. For PPC, I think it's when < 10% of memory remains that it starts notifying apps to shut down.
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: how quickly will the QFE be released for platform builder once SP2 is released?
A: No one here knows. It's up to the CE team to get that together. I would like to see it immediately, but that probably won't happen..
Guest_Mike_Deck says:
Q: Has anyone worked on a system pushing XML using sms?
A: I'm not aware of existing articles on this, but there is an SMS sample in the SDK and you can pass XML in the messages and parse it
Host: TimWilson (MVP)
Q: Where is the best place to start learning XML?
A: This is a good site: https://www.w3schools.com/xml/default.asp
Host: ctacke (eMVP)
Q: Recently I have been trying to p/invoke SendMessage to stop and close windows media player(PPC) is there a way to spy on the pocket pc similar to the way you would on the PC using SPY++ ?
A: Install eVC - It has Remote Spy++
Host: Maarten (MVP)
Q: Will it do that if I have a modal form open?
A: No, not for the application owning the modal form.
Host: Jared_Miniman (MVP)
Some of you have been asking for useful CF.NET references available online....I personally find the "official" CF FAQ at https://msdn2.microsoft.com/netframework/aa497275.aspx to be very useful
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Thanks for joining us today and thanks for the questions. A special **thank you** to all of our awesome hosts today. It's time for us to go now.
Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
If you have further questions regarding the Compact Framework, please check out: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework
For further information on this topic please visit the following:
Newsgroups: Mobile and embedded application development topics
Mobile and Embedded Transcripts: Read the archive
Website: Visit the Mobile & Embedded Developer Center
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