Windows XP Embedded

Posted January 15, 2004

Chat Date: December 18, 2003

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Welcome to today's Windows XP Embedded chat regarding Securing and Servicing Embedded Devices! Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Let’s introduce our hosts for today.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Jon Fincher, Program Manager, XPE Strike Team

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Ravi Gopal, Product Manager

Host: Khalidsa (Microsoft)
Khalid Sabri, XP embedded Support

Host: Andy (Microsoft)
Andy Allred, Test Lead

Host: Jay (Microsoft)
Jay Kremer, Program Manager in the Windows Embedded strike team

Host: Lynda (Microsoft)
Lynda Allen, Test Engineer for Component Integration

Host: PatAzz (Microsoft)
Pat Azzarello - Program Manager - Windows Embedded Enabling Features

Host: Brett (Microsoft)
Brett Muzzey, Documentation Manager

Host: mark (Microsoft)
Mark Willis - Embedded XP Support

Host: billpier (Microsoft)
Bill Pierson Embedded XP Support Engineer.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Welcome everyone, let’s get started!

Start of Chat

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: So are you guys going to have any presence at the upcoming CES?
A: Yes there will be an embedded presence in the MS booth.

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: I'm just curious what you guys might be showing from XPE
A: We'll be showing about a dozen devices brought to market by our partners that are running XPe. Among them are PC gaming consoles, satellite routers, arcade games, interactive exercise bikes, and hard-drive-based audio systems

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: I saw a snip in the NG the other day about MS working with McAfee on an XPe Anti-Virus component. Any truth to that?
A: We are engaged w/anti-virus vendors to come up with solutions for XPe-based devices. You'll hopefully be hearing more about this over the next few months.

Host: PatAzz (Microsoft)
Q: Do you guys have any comments on the cool Longhorn stuff (indigo, etc) and when that might show up in the embedded space?
A: This information was announced at the Windows PDC this fall. We will be announcing more detailed Embedded plans at our DevCon in 2004. Look for information on DevCon early next year.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Curious, what's the support plan for NTE? Is this being discontinued? I've seen an "end of life" notification...
A: NTE is still supported, and will be under Extended Support until the end of Q2 2005. We currently support NTE with SP6a added, and QFE's made available for NT 4.0 will be available for NTE through the end Q2 2005.

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: Is there a market for add-on applications with XPE like there is for Pocket PC or are the devices fairly closed?
A: PocketPC & SmartPhone are consumer experiences built atop the CE OS by MS, and then delivered by our HW partners. With respect to XPe, the devices are not closed, it's just that we don't have any effort mirroring these efforts quite yet. That being said we engage w/OEMs in many device categories such as POS, ATM, Thin Clients and the like to construct XPe-based scenarios

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Will there ever be a componentized .NET Framework (or Compact Framework support) for XPE?
A: XPE with SP1 contained the .Net Framework 1.0. .Net Framework 1.1 is currently in final stages of release. We'll have an update CD available very soon containing all the QFE's for XPE SP1 as well as a few new features - WMP9, RDP 5.2, and .Net 1.1.

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: Is there any chance of seeing LHe evolve into non-X86 platforms? It seems like XScale is gaining significant momentum (just one example) in the embedded space - are you completely satisfied with what CE.NET has to offer, or will you pursue LHe for RI
A: No. One of XPe's most compelling value propositions is being able to run on PC commodity x86 hardware and having full Win32 app compatibility. CE.NET is positioned at a completely different marketspace hence you have both RISC & CISC CPU support

Host: PatAzz (Microsoft)
Q: Although several of us (including myself) are using DUA successfully there have been a few posts in the NG about usability. Are there any plans to update DUA for LHE or even SP2?
A: At this time we have no specific feature enhancements for DUA, but I'd like to hear suggestions, etc. We have been talking about some white papers, etc. to help people better understand it and decrease their DUA development time. As an alternative to DUA, keep your eyes open for an announcement about SMS for XPe in the very near future. The documentation for DUA is totally revised for SP2, including new how-to topics and a new tutorial.

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: Are you guys doing anything to release QFE's faster?
A: Yes -- tons. For starters, we are working on enabling licensing scenarios to drop client fixes to embedded devices, eliminating the delta altogether. We also have gotten more closely integrated w/the Windows & Security teams, allowing our PM & test teams to have more visibility into the Client QFE release process
A: Windows is currently releasing security bulletins on a monthly basis. We're mirroring that effort, and are now part of their release process, so we know what's coming before it's released. We've also put a process in place that better organizes our resources and lets us be more proactive scheduling resources and efforts towards releasing QFE's.

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: "drop client fixes to embedded devices, eliminating the delta altogether" please explain.
A: The ability to use a Windows XP Professional QFE on a Windows XP Embedded-based device.

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: Talking about MS plans for SMS, what would be footprint impact on the client side including SMS component(s)? It may be hard to answer but very rough estimate would be fine. Also, will SMS client work with MinLogon images?
A: You'll be hearing much more about SMS over the next few days/weeks.

Host: PatAzz (Microsoft)
A: Footprint size for SMS on XPe will be about 12 meg.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: What're MS plans on distributing XP Security patches/etc. through SMS? Any public SMS server from MS? This may be not applicable at all (don't know much about SMS) but just want to compare it to current DUA support.
A: With the efforts to enable applying desktop QFE's on XPE runtimes, we want to allow SMS to directly apply desktop QFE's to SMS Client enabled runtimes. We're also working on enablign SUS to work with XPE runtimes, but that's still down the road a bit.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: When will there be support for running XP Hot fix executables on XPe images?
A: We expect this to be available in mid-January. Recent changes to the desktop QFE installer are requiring some more work on the technical side.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: When will the 1.1 .Net framework component be released?
A: The Rollup CD will be available by the end of the month. Once that has been released, the features it contains will be released to the web - expect this in early to mid January.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: John, by "SMS to directly apply desktop QFE's" what do you mean? "directly" from MS website or from corporate SMS enterprise server?
A: Directly from a corporate SMS server. Applying directly from a Microsoft web site means enabling Windows Update, which is a much bigger problem.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: John, that means SMS solution will only be available for those who bought SMS server which is not cheap. What's plan for public Windows Update support for XPe?
A: Right now, there is no plan for supporting WU on XPE runtimes.

Host: Khalidsa (Microsoft)
Q: Does anyone know how to recover a deleted file that didn't go to the recycle bin?
A: There are third party tools, for example see https://www.uneraser.com/

Host: Ravi (Microsoft)
Q: Do you reccomend using XPe as a replacement for XP Pro? We plan to host office applications through terminal services.
A: No. XPe is meant for fixed-function devices that required embedded-specific capabilites (not in Pro, such as headless, flash operation) whereas Pro is meant for mainstream enterprises/customers that require a full-functioning PC. You can however use XPe as a TS client as we support RDP (as does Pro).

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: I am attempting to use inuse.exe to replace ntdll.dll from QFE 815021 and the file doesn't get replaced. Any ideas?
A: A Google search found this tip on jsiinc.com: The inuse.exe utility may fail to replace the specified system files if the %TEMP% or %TMP% System environment variables DO NOT point to the same drive as %SystemRoot%.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: For DUA, will there be any sample scripts available from MS along with Security patches/QFEs? Any automated tool to compali available QFEs in DUA scripts?
A: There are existing samples for DUA that you can use to craft generic scripts. We won't write any scripts for QFE's we release because of the test hit and the sheer variety of XPE devices in the field - we can't generalize DUA scripts to cover the base. However, we are working on a tool to make DUA script writing much easier - look for more announcements in the new year.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Will there be a patch put out for 826231 - Software update that prevents the processing of XML messages that contain DTDs for .NET Framework 1.1.?
A: We don't even have the component available yet, and we're already getting QFE requests for it! If the QFE in question is a security bulletin, we'll pick it up as a matter of course. If not, you'll need to request it through PSS.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: John, you may use XPe Tips website to post DUA QFE sample scripts.. AFAIK, it does not require much testing (only tips!) but will help many devs/ITs to patch their XPe image quickly. This is not a question but suggestion.
A: There are already some sample scripts available for DUA in the documentation and on the website. However, perhaps another sample showing how a QFE can be applied to a runtime under specific circumstances wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll see what I can do and what the other members of the QFE team think. Thanks!

Host: Khalidsa (Microsoft)
Q: My new generated image is giving a 0x0000007B stop error code when I run it on the embedded device...What this mean?
A: One of the common causes for this bugcode is using ta.exe instead of tap.exe to collect the target hardware info. Is it possible to use tap.exe instead? tap.exe gathers more accurate info about the hardware including the specs of IDE controller and other motherboard devices

Host: Khalidsa (Microsoft)
Q: Should I install Windows OS on the device to run tap.exe on my device ?? I used ta.exe on DOS.
A: Tap.exe is a 32-bit tool and won't run under DOS. You need either to install XP on the target device and run tap.exe OR boot into Win PE off the first CD of the XP embedded suite and then run tap.exe.

Host: PatAzz (Microsoft)
Q: Can you talk about Internet connection firewall ?
A: ICF is currently part of XPe SP1. Are there specific questions you have about it? We also have an enhanced version that will be released as part of XPe SP2 later in 2004.

Host: PatAzz (Microsoft)
Q: What additional features will the enhanced ICF have?
A: There are not a lot of enhancements in functionality, but the Pro version will have a better admin interface, etc and it's enabled by default. For XPe SP2 we'll be creating an enhanced component definition with better configuration options.

Host: Jon (Microsoft)
Q: Can you give any more specifics regarding the SP2 release date? Even just Q1 or Q2 would help.
A: Sorry, we can't. We're scheduled to ship within XPE SP2 within 30 days of the desktop SP2 - we don't when that will ship, so we can't say when we'll ship.

Host: PatAzz (Microsoft)
Q: You can use Win Pro or Win PE with TAP
A: Yes. The XPe SP1 release has WinPe on one of the disks. IF you can boot from CD and get TAP, you can run it.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Thanks for joining us today and thanks for the questions. A special **thank you** to all of our hosts today. It's time for us to go now.

Moderator: mikefos (Microsoft)
Please see the chats schedule for upcoming topics.

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