Web Development Executive Chat (October 24, 2007)

Article
01/21/2022

Chat Topic: Web Development Executive Chat
Date: Wednesday, October 24, 2007

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Experts:

Scott Guthrie, General Manger, .NET Developer Platform

Bill Staples, Product Unit Manager, Internet Information Services

Start of Chat:

Dave Bishop (Moderator):
We're chatting with Bill Staples and Scott Guthrie from Microsoft's Web Development Team. Please ask your questions by hitting the "Ask the Expert" button. Thanks for coming out today!

ScottGu (Expert):
>>>>> Scott, when are you releasing the asp.net MVC framework ?

ScottGu (Expert):
>>> re: MVC availabilty: We are planning on releasing a public preview of the ASP.NET MVC Framework in a few weeks. We'll then release the final version of it the first half of next year. If you are interested in learning more, feel free to send me email (scottgu@microsoft.com) and I can hook you into an early adopter program for the MVC work that we are doing.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: when we can expect the final version of VisualStudio hit the shelves ?
A: We are going to be signing off on VS 2008 shortly. It will be available for MSDN subscribers to download the day we RTM. So if you are a MSDN subscriber you'll have access to it shortly. It then takes a few weeks once we release to manufacturing for CD/DVDs to be printed, boxed and distributed to stores. So if you are looking to buy it retail it probably won't be available until January of next year.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Scott, are you going to be there at TechEd EMEA?
A: Unfortunately I won't be there at TechEd EMEA this year I'm afraid. Several people from my team will be there though. Hope it goes well!

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: Hi, I have been looking at the samples on iis.net for managing web sites and application pools programmaticly with the microsoft.web.administration namespace, but I can't find info or samples on how to manage the extra FTP server that came with RC0 build ?
A: You may also want to check out these other articles: https://www.iis.net/articles/view.aspx/IIS7/Managing-IIS7/Using-FTP-Server-in-IIS7/What-s-New-for-Microsoft-and-FTP- https://www.iis.net/articles/view.aspx/IIS7/Managing-IIS7/Using-FTP-Server-in-IIS7/Configure-IIS-Manager-Authentication https://www.iis.net/articles/view.aspx/IIS7/Managing-IIS7/Using-FTP-Server-in-IIS7/Installing-and-Troubleshooting-FTP7 https://www.iis.net/articles/view.aspx/IIS7/Managing-IIS7/Using-FTP-Server-in-IIS7/Adding-FTP-to-a-Web-site https://www.iis.net/articles/view.aspx/IIS7/Managing-IIS7/Using-FTP-Server-in-IIS7/Creating-a-New-FTP-Site https://www.iis.net/articles/view.aspx/IIS7/Managing-IIS7/Using-FTP-Server-in-IIS7/Using-FTP-over-SSL https://www.iis.net/articles/view.aspx/IIS7/Managing-IIS7/Using-FTP-Server-in-IIS7/Using-virtual-host-names

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Will the CSS Adapters be availalbe in the next version of Visual Stuido?
A: Our plan is to definitely increase the support and usage of CSS with the standard ASP.NET server controls going forward. The ListView control in VS 2008 is a good example of this. VS 2008 itself also has really rich CSS tool support now. Here is a blog post I've done on it: https://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/08/10/the-asp-listview-control-part-1-building-a-product-listing-page-with-clean-css-ui.aspx

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: I'm asking from a hosting company perspective, we'd like to write a webservice that creates an AppPool, Website, enables web site feature delegation, but also creates an ftp publishing site and user. Where can I find detailed information for this?
A: Hi Gregory - we've got a sample web service for doing exactly this. We're planning to publish it later this year, but if you send me an email offline I'll send you an early preview. (bills@microsoft.com)

ScottGu (Expert):
Mohamed - can you ask that question via the question manager? That way my answer will get linked to the question - which will make it easier for people to follow. Thx!

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: Related to programmatic administratin.... Are there plans to have a powershell "codebehind" on mmc functions for IIS admin similar to what exchange 12 does?
A: Hi JimA - we've actually got a feature in the works that plugs into IIS Manager (the IIS 7 admin tool) which will generate AppCmd.exe commands, VB script against our AHAdmin COM interface, as well as C# code for Microsoft.Web.Administration APIs. We're also in the middle of designing our powershell support for IIS, and will be looking at how we can deeply integrate the admin tool with powershell.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: hello scott, am mohammed from egypt, the one who kept on telling you to come to egypt. will you make it this year or in the next EDC (Egypt Developers Conference), or still cant find a reservation to cairo? :)
A: Unfortunately I'm not quite sure of my travel schedule just yet. But hopefully I will be able to make it sometime!

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: How many of you have tried out IIS7? What do you think?

Dave Bishop (Moderator):
A: We're chatting with Bill Staples and Scott Guthrie from Microsoft's Web Team. Please ask your questions by hitting the "Ask the Expert" button. Thanks for coming out today!

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: What's the difference between IIS 7 on Windows Vista and Windows 2008 ? Will there be any IIS updates in Windows Vista SP1 or so ?
A: Great question Mohamed. I posted a blog post on this a while back: https://blogs.iis.net/bills/archive/2006/09/18/IIS7-\_2D00\_-Vista-vs.-Longhorn-Server.aspx When Vista SP1 ships, it will be completely in sync with the changes we've made to IIS7 in Windows Server 2008.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: what are the expected changes/enhancements that will be shipped with the final vesrion of VS comparing to the Beta2 one ?
A: In general you'll find the differences between Beta2 and the final release relatively small. A lot of bug fixes and performance work is being done. There are some API changes with LINQ to SQL that were made to clarrify a few scenarios a little better. The <asp:datapager> has been updated to support querystring based paging - which is more SEO friendly. ASP.NET AJAX 1.0 is now supported in multi-targetting mode. And there is a new database scripting tool that is built-in that enables you to easily take a database and generate a .sql file with the schema (and optionally the data) that you can use to publish it to a hoster.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Scott, any idea whether the P&P guys have any plans to support the new MVC pattern in the WCSF?
A: I don't yet know the exact details of what they have planned - but the P&P folks are definitely very plugged into the MVC design, and will be updating the WCSF solution to fully support it.

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: Tools like DebugDiag were fantastic improvements to help debug iis5/6.... With the advent of IIS7 and things like FREB analysis, the needs have changed. Are there changes planned for DebugDiag, or will there be a new tool?
A: We'll definitely be adding more tools to help support / diagnose IIS in the future. We feel pretty good about the new built-in IIS7 features that should go a long way to resolving some of the common errors people run in to. At this point we're still collecting data on what issues customers will face with IIS7, so we can design the right tools / features to target this release. If you have suggestions on what we could build or add to existing tools, be sure and send them my way.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Talking about LINQ, how serious do you look at LLBLGen when you developed LINQ to SQL ?
A: LINQ itself is designed to work with any data provider - so it isn't required that you use the LINQ to SQL or LINQ to Entities ORM (object relational mapper). LLBLGen is actually going to be releasing a version of their ORM with LINQ support next year actually. In terms of the actual ORMs we looked at when designed LINQ to SQL and LINQ to Entities, I know those teams looked at a number of them (I'm not sure specifically which ones though)

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: If IIS 7 breaks, can it be fully removed and reinstalled. And how portable is the configuration?

A: Absolutely! You will want to uninstall both IIS as well as the Windows Process Activation Service (a part of IIS that is installable separately for applications like WCF that don't need the Web server). Also, IIS7 configuration is fully portable...we've taken out encrypted values by default, we use environment variables like %systemdrive% instead of hard coded paths, etc. You can simply XCopy the global configuration file for IIS7 (applicationHost.config) from one machine to another and essentially clone IIS7 configuration. Of course, you'll want to be careful what you add to IIS configuration to maintain this portable state (eg. don't put hard coded paths that won't exist on target machines!)

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: It's possible with the new VS debug javascript code ?
A: Yep - VS 2008 has great support for JavaScript debugging now. I did a blog post on this a few months back here with details: https://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/07/19/vs-2008-javascript-debugging.aspx It also supports JavaScript intellisense: https://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/06/21/vs-2008-javascript-intellisense.aspx

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: am with Meligy in asking about the next release of IE Developer toolbar, cause we are now forced to use firebug in firefox to debug problems and otehr stuff, and we expect a powerful tool from you guys, so tell us your plans :D
A: Unfortunately we aren't from the IE team - so don't know the exact plans on that right now (other than I know they are working on it). Sorry!

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Is there any plan to have web based VS projects with F# similar to C#/VB.NET ? (website, web app models)
A: My guess is that this will be supported - although I don't have an exact ETA on it just yet. The nice thing about .NET is that the libraries don't need to-do anything special to support new languages. So adding F# support is relatively straight forward.

Dave Bishop (Moderator):
We have about 25 minutes left in today's chat. If you have questions for either Bill Staples or Scott Guthrie from Microsoft's Web development team, please ask away!

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: We've heard there will be some Code Analysis tools built into VS 8 - can you elaborate?
A: I believe VS 2008 now supports the ability to-do some complexity and combination analysis on your code and provide reports on it. I'm not entirely sure which SKU this is supported in though - it might be one of the VSTS products that provides it.

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: do you think asp.net/iis7 will ever be part of servercore?
A: Hi Jim - IIS7 is on Server Core today! Check out https://www.iis.net/articles/view.aspx/IIS7/Explore-IIS7/Getting-Started/IIS7-on-Server-Core We're still working on how/when to add ASP.NET and the .NET Framework, but we definitely plan to do this.

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: Well, the question about server core would be (most likely answered in some blog though), will there be .NET Fx for server core ?
A: Hi Mohammed - we'd definitely like to make this happen. We're still working on the engineering logistics to figure out how and when.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Will there be any new functionality allowing the use of Master Pages across multiple applications?
A: There isn't directly support for this today unfortunately. :-( Sorry!

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: I see now is possible. But what happend when the javascript code is linked a html object event. For instance "ONCLICK=javascript:DoSomething();". Can i put a breakpoint over this sentence ?
A: Yes - I'm pretty sure this will just work

Mary - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Another question for the Experts: Is PHP Supported?

Bill Staples (Expert):
A: Q: Another question for the Experts: Is PHP Supported?

A: IIS7 does add support for FastCGI, an interop feature that enables PHP to run with excellent performance and reliability on Windows. We've also shipped this feature for IIS5.1/IIS6, learn more on https://iis.net/php

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: What's the best available source for VS Shell? Is MS going to use it itself ? (This will be the best guarantee it's extensible enough, etc)
A: If you send me email I can try and connect you with someone on the VS Shell team. It is built using the core VS extensibility model - so I think should provide a powerful option.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: what do you recommend for any new developer to get directly to be a good one, should he/she start learning the basis ( like php, and the old stuff) or he/she may get directly to read a book about asp.net2.0 and keep practcing till become a good developer?
A: Obviously I'm biased <g>, but I'd recommend going with ASP.NET and either VB or C#. I think there are a lot of opportunities with it, and the VB/C# languages offer a lot of opportunity and flexibility.

Dave Bishop (Moderator):
We have 15 more minutes folks. Thanks for all of your great questions. Please keep them coming.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Are there any plans for ASP.NET controls or frameowork libraries for .NET 2.5.NEXT ?
A: Yes - there will be several new controls and features with the release of ASP.NET after .NET 3.5. We'll be releasing some of them to run on top of .NET 3.5 early next year - including the MVC framework, new dynamic data controls, more ASP.NET AJAX support (history management, CSS selectors, etc), REST support, and Silverlight integration. The release of ASP.NET after that will then have even more features. :-)

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Do I have to reactivate xp if I upgrade RAM
A: No - you shouldn't have to reactivate. If you have any problems with this though you can call Microsoft Product Support and they will definitely be able ot help you.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Scott, I heared you in your presentation @ Alt.Net talking about testibility and the built-in mock objects of the MVC Framework. are you shipping any IoC container or DI framework along with it to facilitate injecting mock objects?
A: We aren't shipping our own IOC or Dependency Injection framework with the MVC work. Instead we are designing it to work with existing ones out there - including Windsor, Spring.NET, StructureMap, ObjectBuilder, etc. All our core contracts in the MVC framework are interface based, and all base classes use virtual methods - so you can also use any mocking framework you want with it.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Is any of the features to be added to ASP.NET 3.5 SP1 going to be released with source as CSS Adapters and ASP.NET AJAX earlier ? (I gues for MVC Fx yes, but for the next features??), and when should we expect to see initial documents about these ?
A: All of the source for the .NET framework libraries will be released going forward: https://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/10/03/releasing-the-source-code-for-the-net-framework-libraries.aspx This includes new features released with service packs (incluidng the MVC framework, etc)

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Speaking of "ObjectBuilder", are there any near new release plans for it?
A: I'm not 100% sure of the P&P team's plans with this. I know they are continuing to enhance it - but don't know the exact dates for the next release of it.

Dave Bishop (Moderator):
We have about 5 minutes left in today's chat. If you have questions for either Bill Staples or Scott Guthrie from Microsoft's Web development team, please ask!

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: What's the relation between Sharepoint Versionning and ASP.NET versionning for the next two versions?
A: SharePoint today uses .NET 3.0 - which is the same CLR runtime as .NET 3.5. If you install .NET 3.5 on the SharePoint system you should be able to deploy components and web parts that use new .NET 3.5 features.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: * About 3.5 SP1, I mean before they're released, as to allow community contributions, etc ?? (yeah, more like CSS adapters, than ASP.NET AJAX, sorry!)
A: I think this is something we are looking at (releasing the source before it is released) - although I'm not 100% sure of the timing for that

Bill Staples (Expert):
Q: What is the target date for IIS 7 to be released?
A: IIS7 has already released as part of Windows Vista earlier this year. It will be updated with Windows Server 2008 for server operating systems early next year. The launch date for Windows 2008 has been announced: Feb 27, 2008. IIS7 in Windows Vista SP1 will be updated to be in sync with the Windows Server 2008 release.

Dave Bishop (Moderator):
A:

Well, we're running out of time. Our experts will finish up the last few questions that have already been submitted.Thank you to all of you for turning out today to participate in our Executive chat on Web Development. And a special thanks to our two Experts, Bill Staples, and Scott Guthrie.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: ExpectedException attribute of Test methods does not support System.Exception in the current release of VS. any idea whether this was resolved in VS 2008?
A: Unfortunately I don't know that area of the product that well. But if you send me email (scottgu@microsoft.com) on it I'd be happy to connect you up with someone who does to get an answer.

ScottGu (Expert):
Q: Something like this : <td OnMouseOver="DrawActiveBorder(this);" OnMouseOut="DrawInactiveBorder(this);>" How the debugger knows what javascript function to debug ? DrawActiveBorder or DrawInactive Border? There is another way to apply a breakpoint to func ?
A: To be honest with you I'm not 100% sure. But if you send me email I'd be happy to have someone get an answer for you.

ScottGu (Expert):
Thanks everyone for the chat - hope to talk with you again soon!

Bill Staples (Expert):
Thanks to everyone for coming out to the Web Chat today. It was a pleasure meeting you - hope it was helpful!

Dave Bishop (Moderator):
That's all the time we have today. Thank you to everyone that submitted a question!

Share via

Web Development Executive Chat (October 24, 2007)

Additional resources