Windows CE Embedded Compact Live Chat! (August 31, 2010)

Article
01/21/2022

Chat Topic: Windows Embedded Compact (Windows CE) Live Chat
Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010

Please note:* *Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

davbo-msft (Moderator):
Q: Okay I did something stupid yesterday and installed a free screensaver. When I uninstalled it and I rebooted I got an error message in windows. I tried to reinstalled it to fix the problem but nothing. I also attempted to do a system restore to get rid of
A: Hello Chikita - This is a chat for Windows Embedded https://www.Microsoft.com/embedded. For Windows help please refer to the Windows support - https://www.Microsoft.com

davbo-msft (Moderator):
Q: Application has failed to start because framedyn.dll was not found" error message when you open the System Properties dialog box netsh.exe
A: Hello Chikita - this is a chat for Windows Embedded Compact/Windows CE https://www.microsoft.com/embedded - please refer to https://www.microsoft.com for general windows questions.

davbo-msft (Moderator):
Q: netsh.exe - unable to locate component

This application has failed to start because framedyn.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem
A: Hello Chikita - this is a Windows Embedded Forum https://www.microsoft.com/embedded - please keep the topics related to Windows CE.

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: is it possible to force the video renderer in wince 6.0 to always allocate from video (h/w) memory (even for GDI buffers)?
A: No, it is not. There are some graphics (surfaces) which are internal for GDI

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: Okay I did something stupid yesterday and installed a free screensaver. When I uninstalled it and I rebooted I got an error message in windows. I tried to reinstalled it to fix the problem but nothing. I also attempted to do a system restore to get rid of
A: Chikita, does this question have to do with Windows Embedded Compact?

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: I'm with a public library and we have some devices that use Windows CE 5. Our City IT runs our security and say because they can't find antivirus software for Windows CE 5 devices we need to remove them from the network. Is there antivirus for Windows CE 5, or do you have other suggestions?
A: Windows CE is normally a "closed system", which cannot accept programs from the outside. If your computers have no way to let outside programs in, then they are immune from attack. In essence your systems are like toasters or microwave ovens. Unless somebody can get software into the system, antivirus software does not make any sense.

davbo-msft (Moderator):
Q: I hope it is OK for me to ask... I am more or less new to Windows CE. I am developing a simple device which will only be used to provide GUI (through touchscreen) to control a microcontroler over UART. I wrote the application in C#, but now I would like to
A: Hello Bojan - yes this forum is open to any Windows CE questions so whatever questions you have feel free to ask. Part of your question was clipped. Can you add additional information?

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: What are exceptions to "normally"?
A: An open system is one that can run software that is accepted from the outside world. For example, if you have a USB disk key or compact flash card, or can download software to the unit and then execute that software, then the system is not "closed". Normally Windows CE devices have a custom shell that does not let a user either download software to the system or execute it. There are of course exceptions where a system is left open.

Sing Wee [MS] (Expert):
Q: Also, can you point me to documentation on this I can give to City IT?
A:https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee497961.aspx You'll see "Closed box solution" as case 1.

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: I have persistent storage enabled in my build for Hive based registry. If I boot-up my device (with eboot in SD card and NK.bin downloaded over KITL/Ethernet) and there are no partitions available on my NAND device, I see that the NAND/partition driver crashes on boot-up. If I create partitions prior to booting up NK.bin, then the driver loads fine. My question is why does the driver crash if partitions are not present? Can it not skip loading the persistent storage if no partitions are present? If I disable the persistent storage but keep the partition (FATFS) driver in the build, then the device boots up fine.
A: Two questions: What CE version? When you say "crashes on boot" you mean that it causes an exception?

davbo-msft (Moderator):
Q: Hi thanks. Here goes again: I wrote the application in C#, but now I would like to have a nice User Interface - touchfriendly. What is the best way SWE or skining a Windows Forms or any other? We will be using CE6.0R3.
A: Silverlight was added to Windows CE 6.0 which might be a good option for you to investigate UI skinning. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee503558.aspx

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: Hello, I tried to work in Windows CE 6 with the FSDSpy over the Object Store. I could see they running (intercepting the calls), but all calls to the hooked functions (say, CreateFile for example) was failing (returning FALSE), with GetLastError returning 0x2 (File not found). When I use another store than (for example relfsd) it works. Is there any limitation on using a filter over the Object Store?
A: Can you give an example of the parameters that are being passed to the CreateFile call? In particular I'm wondering there may be an invalid path.

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: Its wince 6.0 R3. and yes there is an exception and after that no other drivers are loaded.
A: That sounds like a significant problem. Are you able to determine if the exception is in the partition driver or in the block driver?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: Im passing the same lpPath that comes from the call. For example, before doing a createfile, I want to query if the file is already there to redirect to another path if it is.
A: So CreateFile succeeds when not using FSDSpy?

Paul Nelson [MS] (Expert):
Q: Hi thanks. Here goes again: I wrote the application in C#, but now I would like to have a nice User Interface - touchfriendly. What is the best way SWE or skining a Windows Forms or any other? We will be using CE6.0R3.
A: Silverlight for Windows Embedded is native code. If you want to keep managed code, Win Forms would be the better way to go. Would work better on existing devices that don't have large memory and fast CPU.

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: No I haven't been able to do that. Can you give me some pointers on how to debug?
A: Sure. Look for the address that's given in the exception message. Then either break into the debugger before the crash point and see where the exception is, or if you can't do that you can look up the address in the map file. There are map files that you can use to determine in which module the crash is occurring.

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: I tried to reproduce the crash, but this time the MSPART.DLL is just hung and so is the device. I didnt get an exception trace. So does this mean that the problem is in partition driver and not block driver?
A: How are you able to determine the hang is in MSPART?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: Yes it succeeds, but inside the filter of course I cannot call the CreateFile, as it will be reentrant to the filter. So I call the hooked pointers.
A: Thanks for the background. I don't know of any incompatibility between FSDSpy and the object store - I think the best you will be able to do is step into the debugger and try to see where the call is failing, but depending on your level of source code access this may not help.

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: Because I have KITL+kernel debugger enabled and the last driver whose symbols are loaded is mspart.dll
A: Make sure that the system is not just busy, and not hung. If you are initializing a lot of flash it can take a very long time to do. Can you put a breakpoint or debug messages in your block driver to see if it is being called?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: Is there any issues known trying to replace the FPCRT lib in a MIPS device? I know that it is marked that this is for ARM only...
A: Yes, this isn't supported. We looked at this with a different customer and determined that coredll didn't have the appropriate hooks for MIPS.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: Thanks Travis.
A: No problem, sorry for the bad news.

kurtken_ms (Expert):
Q: yes, my NAND driver is being loaded before MSPART.dll. For MSPart.dll, which file/function should I put breakpoint in? System is not busy. I waited for few mins before declaring my system to be in hung state
A: probably PD_OpenStore is a good place to start.

Sing Wee [MS] (Expert):
Q: Now an easy one: Is there any way to make a IF IMGNOKITL in the platform.reg? (Conditional registry settings depending if the image has KITL or not). Or, can I write a registry value multi_sz appending an old one, not overwriting it in the .reg file?
A: IMGNOKITL is just an variable in your build environment, so I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to filter based on the variable.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
A: Sure, IMGNOKITL is a valid variable in platform.reg. It should be straightforward. You can mirror the logic at the beginning of public\common\oak\files\common.bib. Out of curiosity, what are you trying to do?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: in bib file this IF works, but in reg the makeimg fails.
A: Since the chat is almost over, I will follow up via email. This should work, in fact you can also so conditioning on IMGNOKITL in common.reg.

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Chat Topic: Windows Embedded Compact (Windows CE) Live Chat

davbo-msft (Moderator): Our chat today covers the topic of Windows Embedded Compact (Windows CE)!

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davbo-msft (Moderator): Hello - this is Dave Boyce. I work in the Embedded Compact Multimedia Group.

davbo-msft (Moderator): 4. Please abide by the Chat Code of Conduct.

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chikitaasked the experts: Application has failed to start because framedyn.dll was not found" error message when you open the System Properties dialog box netsh.exe

chikitaasked the experts: Okay I did something stupid yesterday and installed a free screensaver. When I uninstalled it and I rebooted I got an error message in windows. I tried to reinstalled it to fix the problem but nothing. I also attempted to do a system restore to get rid of

davbo-msft (Moderator): We are pleased to welcome our Experts for today’s chat. I will have them introduce themselves now.

Chat is now started.

<https://www.Microsoft.com/Embedded>

Previous Transcripts: <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/chats/bb250671.aspx>

Windows Embedded Compact 7 Public CTP now available

<https://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/products/windowsce/compact7.mspx>

JainM: is it possible to force the video renderer in wince 6.0 to always allocate from video memory (even for GDI buffers)?

chikita: netsh.exe - unable to locate component

This application has failed to start because framedyn.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem

davbo-msft (Moderator): Hello JainM-please ask your question again and make sure you have the Experts option checked to post to the expert window.

chikitaasked the experts: netsh.exe - unable to locate component

This application has failed to start because framedyn.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem

JainMasked the experts: is it possible to force the video renderer in wince 6.0 to always allocate from video (h/w) memory (even for GDI buffers)?

rlmill8: I'm with a public library and we have some devices that use Windows CE 5. Our City IT runs our security and say because they can't find antivirus software for Windows CE 5 devices we need to remove them from the network. Is there antivirus for Windows CE 5, or do you have other suggestions?

Marcelovkasked the experts: Hello, I tried to work in Windows CE 6 with the FSDSpy over the Object Store. I could see they running (intercepting the calls), but all calls to the hooked functions (say, CreateFile for example) was failing (returning FALSE), with GetLastError returning 0x2 (File not found). When I use another store than (for example relfsd) it works. Is there any limitation on using a filter over the Object Store?

davbo-msft (Moderator): Hello rlmil8 - please ask your question again and make sure you set the Expert option to post to the experts page.

rlmill8asked the experts: I'm with a public library and we have some devices that use Windows CE 5. Our City IT runs our security and say because they can't find antivirus software for Windows CE 5 devices we need to remove them from the network. Is there antivirus for Windows CE 5, or do you have other suggestions?

Bojanasked the experts: I hope it is OK for me to ask... I am more or less new to Windows CE. I am developing a simple device which will only be used to provide GUI (through touchscreen) to control a microcontroler over UART. I wrote the application in C#, but now I would like to

rlmill8asked the experts: What are exceptions to "normally"?

rlmill8asked the experts: Also, can you point me to documentation on this I can give to City IT?

Bruce Eitman: rlmill8 - I am not aware of any anti-virus software for Windows CE, but I am also not aware of any virus that affect Windows CE. You may want to have your vendor discuss this with your IT team.

Marcelovk: rlmil, you will need to contact the vendor of the equipment (who probably created the windows ce customized image) and ask them this

Bojan: rlmill8 in case you are using an open system, on which additional programs can be installed. maybe thin-clients, or WindowsMobile device... if I am right

rlmill8asked the experts: Thanks.

Bojanasked the experts: Hi thanks. Here goes again: I wrote the application in C#, but now I would like to have a nice User Interface - touchfriendly. What is the best way SWE or skining a Windows Forms or any other? We will be using CE6.0R3.

JainMasked the experts: I have persistent storage enabled in my build for Hive based registry. If I boot-up my device (with eboot in SD card and NK.bin downloaded over KITL/Ethernet) and there are no partitions available on my NAND device, I see that the NAND/partition driver crashes on boot-up. If I create partitions prior to booting up NK.bin, then the driver loads fine. My question is why does the driver crash if partitions are not present? Can it not skip loading the persistent storage if no partitions are present? If I disable the persistent storage but keep the partition (FATFS) driver in the build, then the device boots up fine.

Bruce Eitman: Bojan - in what way do you need it to be "touch friendly"? What problems are you experiencing? Certainly making the buttons finger sized will help.

rlmill8asked the experts: Okay, thanks.

Bojan: Bruce, you are right. The buttons are bigger and touchfriently correct. But I also use slider, which is a bit more dificult to customize (as I saw in Blend - using silverlight for we). The main problem is I need to make it a nice... not windows gray style.

Bruce Eitman: Bojan - we can't see your user interface or your requirements, what does "nice" really mean?

Marcelovk: JainM, this solution is probably on the source of your nand driver; you need to understand what the nand is trying to do when it crashes. Also, do you have HIVE or ROM only filesys in your catalog?

DBarnett: @Bojan: I guess the answer to your question also depends on how much power you have "under the hood", i.e. do you have hardware acceleration. A good user experience not only comes with bigger buttons but also with prompt reaction times.

JainMasked the experts: Its wince 6.0 R3. and yes there is an exception and after that no other drivers are loaded.

Marcelovkasked the experts: Im passing the same lpPath that comes from the call. For example, before doing a createfile, I want to query if the file is already there to redirect to another path if it is.

Bojan: Thanks Bruce. More apealing ... or what should I say. Like video players which used to look windows based gray, but than they got skins - to make them nicer. I will have x86 CPU 500Mhz AMD or ATOM Z5xx. Both have HW graphic acceleration but I am not sure a

Bruce Eitman: Bojan - then Silverlight/C++ is probably the way to go.

JainMasked the experts: No I haven't been able to do that. Can you give me some pointers on how to debug?

Bojan: I thought so. Only problem is I am very week at C++... I saw Andy Wigley was introducing a way to use SWE GUI with managed code behind.

Marcelovk: Yes, it succeeds, but inside the filter of course I cannot call the CreateFile, as it will be reentrant to the filter. So I call the hooked pointers.

Marcelovkasked the experts: Yes it succeeds, but inside the filter of course I cannot call the CreateFile, as it will be reentrant to the filter. So I call the hooked pointers.

Bruce Eitman: Bojan - you could create you own C# controls and make them nice.

Bojan: Bruce, how would I be able to do that?

Bojan: With nice for example I mean: Vista style glossy button and some gradient background...

Bruce Eitman: Bojan - a how to on creating custom controls is way too detailed for a chat.

Bojan: I thiught so. Some pointers what to look for maybe?

Marcelovk: Bojan take a look on QT

JainMasked the experts: I tried to reproduce the crash, but this time the MSPART.DLL is just hung and so is the device. I didnt get an exception trace. So does this mean that the problem is in partition driver and not block driver?

Marcelovk: Jain, place some breakpoint in the first functions of the driver, and go debugging until you find the issue. A good place to start is the XXX_Init

JainMasked the experts: Because I have KITL+kernel debugger enabled and the last driver whose symbols are loaded is mspart.dll

mona: Hi,

Marcelovkasked the experts: Is there any issues known trying to replace the FPCRT lib in a MIPS device? I know that it is marked that this is for ARM only...

JainM: yes, my NAND driver is being loaded before MSPART.dll. For MSPart.dll, which file/function should I put breakpoint in? System is not busy. I waited for few mins (~5 mins) before declaring my system to be in hung state.

mona: I have a problem with my works suite 6. I have an Acer Aspire 5024 WLMi with windows XP . and when I install works suite 6 it is not performed completely and I canot rut it properly. A friend told me it needs a driver to be run, but he does not know . Has anyone an idea about the solution of this problem ?

JainMasked the experts: yes, my NAND driver is being loaded before MSPART.dll. For MSPart.dll, which file/function should I put breakpoint in? System is not busy. I waited for few mins before declaring my system to be in hung state

Marcelovkasked the experts: Thanks Travis.

Bojan: Thanks Marcekivk, but Qt is additional cost, which we can not afford at the time.

Marcelovkasked the experts: Now an easy one: Is there any way to make a IF IMGNOKITL in the platform.reg? (Conditional registry settings depending if the image has KITL or not). Or, can I write a registry value multi_sz appending an old one, not overwriting it in the .reg file?

Bojanasked the experts: Do I understand correctly that WEST (WES Tools) are only supported on WEC7?

mona:

I have a problem with installing my work suite 6 to my Acer Aspire 5024 with home windows HP - the installation is not performed as it should be so I cannot see the whole page of the works.A friend told me it needs run a driver,but i dont know it. CXan you give me the solution ? mona

Marcelovk: mona, this is not a windows xp chat.

davbo-msft (Moderator): Hello everyone, we are just about out of time.

Thank you for joining us for our Windows Embedded Compact (Windows CE) chat today!

<https://www.Microsoft.com/Embedded>

A special thank you to the product group members for coming out.

The transcript of today’s chat will be posted online as soon as possible, to <https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/chats>. We’ll see you again for another chat next month.

Marcelovkasked the experts: Just adding a value on HKLM\Loader. If I simply do that I overwrite \release value there, causing a minor headache in kitl builds

JainMasked the experts: Thanks. I will try to debug from PD_OpenStore.

Bruce Eitman: Marcelovk - you can't add to it, you will replace it. So yes you can use a conditional.

Marcelovkasked the experts: in bib file this IF works, but in reg the makeimg fails.

Marcelovk: it gives me "Invalid IF statement"

Bruce Eitman: Marcelovk - should work exactly the same way int he reg file - same syntax applies. What is your if statement

Bruce Eitman: Marcelovk - ask your question in the Windows compact platform discussion forum. We should be able to help solve the problem.

Marcelovk: forget it, I found the issue, my mistake

Bruce Eitman: https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winembplatdev/threads

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Windows CE Embedded Compact Live Chat! (August 31, 2010)

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